pantheism

Originally posted by apathist
Hey kid, if we disassemble you, part by part, which part is your mind?

If you take an orchestra apart, bit by bit... Which bit is the symphony?

Originally posted by googlefudge...What physics can do however is tell us if there is any special 'magic' going on that makes
the rules different for 'living' rather than 'dead' matter.

There isn't.[/b]

Hard subject, easy to misinterpret what others say. I was with you till the part I quoted. Physics can not do what you claim. I appreciate that you put the word "magic" into quotes. Try this: physics cannot explain everything that occurs (and everything that occurs is natural).

Originally posted by googlefudge
If you take an orchestra apart, bit by bit... Which bit is the symphony?

Where is the university? Same sort of answer. The Whole Is More Than The Sum Of The Parts. After all, googlefudge is more than just pixels dancing on-line.

Originally posted by rwingett
What question is being sidestepped? And in what manner is it being sidestepped?

I dunno. Your avatar looks so angry. Pretty sure I just kill you and call it good.

Originally posted by apathist
Where is the university? Same sort of answer. The Whole Is More Than The Sum Of The Parts. After all, googlefudge is more than just pixels dancing on-line.

The point was that the mind is a consequence of the physical workings of the brain.

Just like a symphony is a consequence of the physical workings of an orchestra.

You take a person apart and you will find no mind.

You take an orchestra apart and you will find no symphony.

There is no magic going on.

Originally posted by apathist
Hard subject, easy to misinterpret what others say. I was with you till the part I quoted. Physics can not do what you claim. I appreciate that you put the word "magic" into quotes. Try this: physics cannot explain everything that occurs (and everything that occurs is natural).

Why can't it?

Originally posted by googlefudge
The point was that the mind is a consequence of the physical workings of the brain.

Just like a symphony is a consequence of the physical workings of an orchestra.

You take a person apart and you will find no mind.

You take an orchestra apart and you will find no symphony.

There is no magic going on.

Okay, magic scares you. What term would you prefer for what, emergent reality? Stuff that transcends their source? Stuff like you? You are more than electrons, right? You are more than atoms, right? You are not merely molecules, right? You aren't just what, organs?

Physics cannot explain your mental existence, and deal with that. Don't be scared.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Why can't it?

insufficiency

c'mon kid, don't be afraid

Originally posted by googlefudge
The point was that the mind is a consequence of the physical workings of the brain.

Just like a symphony is a consequence of the physical workings of an orchestra.

You take a person apart and you will find no mind.

You take an orchestra apart and you will find no symphony.

There is no magic going on.

yes yes yes yes yes

no

Honestly, there is a mystery here, the way the world works. FACT: There is no lack of dead people what thought they knew what was going on.

Originally posted by apathist
insufficiency

c'mon kid, don't be afraid

A. I am no kid. (I'm almost old enough to start contemplating what I'll do for my mid-life crisis)

B. I am not scared.

C. You are talking about something completely different from what I am talking about.


What I said is that our mind is a product of the workings of our brains.
The mind is the symphony, the brain the orchestra.


What physics can do is determine whether or not the orchestra is following the
same laws of physics as the rest of the universe. Or if there is something extra,
'magical' going on, where by the atoms in human brains (or in life generally) suddenly
follow different laws of physics, or some extra 'life force' comes into play.

And what physics can and HAS determined is that atoms in your brain follow exactly
the same laws as atoms anywhere else.


This doesn't explain how the mind is produced by the brain, or what it feels like to
be a mind... But I never said it did.


However for the existence of souls you NEED something extra to be going on.

And there just isn't anything extra going on.

The brain is just a very ordered and complex arrangement of atoms and molecules
that collectively behave in highly complex ways.


That is all.

Originally posted by apathist
I'd like to hear from anyone with anything to say about pantheism, whether for, against, or sideways.
While I'm comfortable, given my society and culture, being labeled an atheist, I do believe there is more going on than just atoms bouncing around (physics cannot explain mind). I find it wonderful that a bunch of cells (especially neuron cells) can give ...[text shortened]... minds. Are you not a god to the cells of your body? Who knows how many levels of gods there are?

I have held the belief for many years that either GOD is the totality of all existence (Pantheism) or there is no god (Atheism). The resources to prove or disprove are not at my disposal. I guess that makes me an Agnostic. But I really don't know.

Originally posted by apathist
Hard subject, easy to misinterpret what others say. I was with you till the part I quoted. Physics can not do what you claim. I appreciate that you put the word "magic" into quotes. Try this: physics cannot explain everything that occurs (and everything that occurs is natural).

Reductionism? Maybe there are useful levels of explanation, and physics is not (or not yet, the physicalists might admit) the useful level for some things.

Originally posted by apathist
I dunno. Your avatar looks so angry. Pretty sure I just kill you and call it good.

My avatar looks so angry because I have to share the forum with idiots.

Originally posted by googlefudge
The point was that the mind is a consequence of the physical workings of the brain.

Just like a symphony is a consequence of the physical workings of an orchestra.

You take a person apart and you will find no mind.

You take an orchestra apart and you will find no symphony.

There is no magic going on.

But you brush aside the mystery, rather than address it. All sorts of physical workings go on all the time, without producing anything like symphonies or minds! Your solution is a complete non-answer. Btw, pretty sure symphonies exist only in, um, a mind. Some people listen to nature, wind blowing, insects buzzing, water gurgling, and hear symphonies.

Originally posted by rwingett
My avatar looks so angry because I have to share the forum with idiots.

You are here under duress?