24 May 14
Originally posted by FMFPerhaps I wasn't specific enough.
And these latter ones ~ burning in agonizing torture for eternity and "forever separated from His presence" ~ are still "permanent members of Christ's Royal Family"?
If you've been redeemed, you are permanent member of the Royal Family; that salvation wasn't exacted through your work so you can't do anything to erase it.
I know you might be thinking "I believed for salvation, can't I un-believe?"
No, friend, you cannot.
It's been likened to sitting in a chair, perhaps because the Christian life is said to be one of rest, of peace.
God beckons us to rest in Him, to sit down, take a load off.
He commands us to grow in that peace.
Some of us do, some of us don't--- meaning, some continue to sit in the chair and grow in a manner consistent with grace and His plan.
Others go to sit but add stipulations, remove themselves from the chair and get to the work they see as necessary for gaining salvation.
Still others (such as you describe your situation) wholly reject the chair they once sat in, either ignoring it for the rest of their physical lives or even make every effort to destroy the chair and all it represents.
At the end of the day, however, our names are not taken from the Book of Life if--- at any time in our lives--- we ever knowingly sat in that chair, regardless of our activity following that initial rest.
If such a reaction were even possible, some of the most sheepish folks in heaven will be those who finally come to the realization they did nothing for their salvation: they couldn't build it, nor could they tear it down.
24 May 14
Originally posted by Rajk999The straight answer is that a person who has accepted the gift, the work of the Lord Jesus Christ done on the Cross, is saved--- one time, for all time.
Its like pulling teeth.
You will never get a straight answer.
They cannot be taken from His hand, even on their own power.
The saved are with God forever.
The unsaved are removed from His presence forever.
24 May 14
Originally posted by FreakyKBHJesus Christ, Paul, James, John, Peter are all shaking their heads in disbelief. It must be incredible to them that after they clearly spelt out the fate of those who fall away you morons keep saying something different.
Perhaps I wasn't specific enough.
If you've been redeemed, you are permanent member of the Royal Family; that salvation wasn't exacted through your work so you can't do anything to erase it.
I know you might be thinking "I believed for salvation, can't I un-believe?"
No, friend, you cannot.
It's been likened to sitting in a chair, perhaps because the C ...[text shortened]... ation they did nothing for their salvation: they couldn't build it, nor could they tear it down.
24 May 14
Originally posted by Rajk999I know we've had the conversation more times than is warranted, but I'll ask again: your salvation is a result of whose work?
Jesus Christ, Paul, James, John, Peter are all shaking their heads in disbelief. It must be incredible to them that after they clearly spelt out the fate of those who fall away you morons keep saying something different.
24 May 14
Originally posted by FreakyKBHI do not believe that there exists a "gift" for me to accept or reject. I do not believe the claims Christians make about "the work of the Lord Jesus Christ done on the Cross". I am ~ in Christian terms ~ an "unbeliever". Grampy Bobby knows this full well and yet he has told me that [1] as an "unbeliever" I will, after death, be trapped in burning fires for all eternity, and [2] I "cannot lose [my] salvation" even though I am an "unbeliever" because I am "a permanent member of Christ's Royal Family". These two things contradict each other.
The straight answer is that a person who has accepted the gift, the work of the Lord Jesus Christ done on the Cross, is saved--- one time, for all time.
24 May 14
Originally posted by FreakyKBHDoes this verse mean anything to you
The straight answer is that a person who has accepted the gift, the work of the Lord Jesus Christ done on the Cross, is saved--- one time, for all time.
They cannot be taken from His hand, even on their own power.
The saved are with God forever.
The unsaved are removed from His presence forever.
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
(2 Peter 2:20-21 KJV)
24 May 14
Originally posted by FMFThread 159413
Grampy Bobby,
You still have not answered the two questions in the OP:
Can "a permanent member of Christ's Royal Family", after dying, be tortured in agony by burning flames for eternity?
If this is what happens to them, are they still "a permanent member of Christ's Royal Family"?
24 May 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI already looked at that link. It does not answer my two questions which arise specifically from things you have said to me.
Thread 159413
Once more:
[1] Can "a permanent member of Christ's Royal Family", after dying, be tortured in agony by burning flames for eternity?
[2] If this is what happens to them, are they still "a permanent member of Christ's Royal Family"?
I am willing to accept a yes or no answer for [1] and [2].
24 May 14
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999"Please see the relevant salvation comments by FreakyKBH on Page two." ~gb
Thats it? I thought he was one of the Apostles in the Bible the way you refer to him as if he is some kind of authority.
There's no biblical reference though he does know what he's talking about; sorry for the confusion.
24 May 14
1 edit
Originally posted by FMF"At the moment of salvation, God imputes His absolute righteousness to every believer and having done so declares him/her righteous or justified. (Romans 3:21-28) If God subsequently excluded any believer from eternal salvation, He would have to deny Himself and contradict His own pronouncement of justification. A believer's salvation is anchored in the essence of God." Thread 159413 Therefore, no condemnation to those who have believed in Christ. 1. Nope. 2. N/A
I already looked at that link. It does not answer my two questions which arise specifically from things you have said to me.
Once more:
[1] Can "a permanent member of Christ's Royal Family", after dying, be tortured in agony by burning flames for eternity?
[2] If this is what happens to them, are they still "a permanent member of Christ's Royal Family"?
I am willing to accept a yes or no answer for [1] and [2].
24 May 14
Originally posted by KellyJayNo. I cannot tell you I was "faking it" ~ it would not be true if I told you that. What happened was that my beliefs changed. I lost my faith. You should perhaps be careful that the sheer strength of your personal convictions and your sincerity do not rob you of your ability to understand the human condition. You are a Christian (I take your word for it) and I was a Christian. You are a human. I am a human. Beliefs can change. I hope your beliefs haven't taken you to a place where you can no longer understand or accept such a basic human trait and fact of life.
If you want to tell me that you were faking it, than got to the point that you had to reject faking it, than I'm telling you, YOU NEVER had a real relationship with God through Jesus Christ. What you were always doing was faking it!
24 May 14
[1] Can "a permanent member of Christ's Royal Family", after dying, be tortured in agony by burning flames for eternity?So "unbelievers" ~ like me ~ are saved alongside "believers"?
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
1. Nope.
This contradicts statements about "unbelievers" and "eternal torture" that you have made on this forum many times.
24 May 14
Originally posted by FMFWhen you considered yourself a believer, what was your take on the topic?
No. I cannot tell you I was "faking it" ~ it would not be true if I told you that. What happened was that my beliefs changed. I lost my faith. You should perhaps be careful that the sheer strength of your personal convictions and your sincerity do not rob you of your ability to understand the human condition. You are a Christian (I take your word for it) and I w ...[text shortened]... a place where you can no longer understand or accept such a basic human trait and fact of life.