Plant buried in permafrost 30,000 years back!

Originally posted by RJHinds
I am a YEC, but I never said Earth was only 6000 years old. It has to
be older than that. The problem is how much older. Certainly, I do not
believe the earth is more than a billion years old. I don't know exactly
what you mean by OEC because you give no age. By YEC, I mean an
approximate age of about 7,000 to 10,000 years.

You apparently have ...[text shortened]... u should
have known the Earth with water and light was created on the first day.
😏

So before your god created light, it could not tell time?

Originally posted by RJHinds
[ If you had read Genesis, you should
have known the Earth with water and light was created on the first day.
🙄

but the sun and stars that generate the light weren't created until the 4th day.

a cosmic whoops!

Originally posted by RJHinds
I am a YEC, but I never said Earth was only 6000 years old. It has to
be older than that. The problem is how much older. Certainly, I do not
believe the earth is more than a billion years old. I don't know exactly
what you mean by OEC because you give no age. By YEC, I mean an
approximate age of about 7,000 to 10,000 years.

You apparently have u should
have known the Earth with water and light was created on the first day.
😏

The rabbis in question are Onkelos 150 CE, Rashi also known as Solemon ben Isaac 1040-1204 CE, Maimonides (Moses Ben Maimon 1135-1204 CE, and Nahmanides 1194-1278 CE.

As for evening and morning, the Hebrew term for "evening" is erev. The root meaning of erev means "mixed up, stirred together, disorderly. The Hebrew for "morning" is boker. It means the opposite with the root meaning to be "discernible, able to be distinguished, orderly.

Again, during the first day there was no earth and the traditional meaning of morning and evening cannot, therefore, apply. As we all know, time is relative, it is not a constant depending upon where and who you are. For example, I'm sure you are aware of the scripture that says that a day to God is like a 1000 days for man etc. Of course, that is not to say that one day = 1000 days, it simply means that time is different for us because it is relative.

The age of the universe has been measured using a variety of independent technological systems, including radioactive dating, Doppler shifts in starlight, and the isotropic "3 degrees above zero" radiation background. The methods of these studies are totally unrelated, yet they all point to the same truth. The time spoken in Genesis in terms of time relation to man is billions of years.

To say that I have left the faith is absurd. Just because I study rabbinical texts in no way means I'm Jewish and have left the faith. It simply means I enjoy learning and don't assume I know everything. In fact, Jewish scholars studied the calendar for the coming of the Messiah in Daniel 9:24-27 and many rabbis interpreted the calendar to mean that the Messiah should have come during the time of Christ. Of course, they rejected him and reasoned that the Messiah must have tarried due to the sinfulness of Israel. Nonetheless, I view that their calculations to be right, it is just their reasoning that was skewed.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So before your god created light, it could not tell time?

Actually God in general cannot 'tell time' because:
1. He is supposedly external to the universe and thus not subject to time.
2. Because of relativity, time is dependant on the exact position in the the universe you are discussing and speed at which you are travelling, so God, who sees everywhere, cannot have a universal clock.

Interestingly, when we talk about the age of the universe even in science, we mean the approximate age as measured by objects not travelling at relativistic speeds. For objects that have been near black holes for the last few billion years, the universe could easily be billions of years younger as measured by their clocks.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Actually God in general cannot 'tell time' because:
1. He is supposedly external to the universe and thus not subject to time.
2. Because of relativity, time is dependant on the exact position in the the universe you are discussing and speed at which you are travelling, so God, who sees everywhere, cannot have a universal clock.

Interestingly, when w ...[text shortened]... ion years, the universe could easily be billions of years younger as measured by their clocks.

Yep, true enough. That would show the religious (who of course would poo-poo any such notion) that their so-called god would know the beginning, the middle and the end of any situation so it would already know who was naughty and who in one million years in our future would be nice, if there were in fact any humans around at that point in time.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So before your god created light, it could not tell time?

No, you misunderstand again. There was no time before the beginning
of God's creation. The time in days in Genesis is given to us by God for
us, just as the Sabbath day of rest is for us. The whole creation is not
needed by God. It is created for God's pleasure.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
but the sun and stars that generate the light weren't created until the 4th day.

a cosmic whoops!

God generated the light. The Sun and the Moon or the stars are not needed
for light to exist. Christ said, "I am the Light of the World."

Originally posted by RJHinds
God generated the light. The Sun and the Moon or the stars are not needed
for light to exist. Christ said, "I am the Light of the World."

So your god just whished his metaphorical fingers and BOING, all of a sudden, with no stars or other such pesky problems, quadrillions of watts of light appeared with no sun to generate it.

Wow.

You say you are educated at least partly in physics, so how can you reconcile our small problem of there wanting to be a source of energy with that really primitive concept that belongs 2000 years in the past and needs to stay there, but no, even 2000 years late it continues to dupe people into believing that shyte.

Originally posted by whodey
The rabbis in question are Onkelos 150 CE, Rashi also known as Solemon ben Isaac 1040-1204 CE, Maimonides (Moses Ben Maimon 1135-1204 CE, and Nahmanides 1194-1278 CE.

As for evening and morning, the Hebrew term for "evening" is erev. The root meaning of erev means "mixed up, stirred together, disorderly. The Hebrew for "morning" is boker. It means the o ...[text shortened]... view that their calculations to be right, it is just their reasoning that was skewed.

Being called a rabbi does not make one an authority on the scriptures.
And these guys opinion is not the true teachings from Judaism. You
also so need to get better sources for you meanings of Hebrew words.

I think you are referring to the following verse:

For a day in Your courts is better than a thousand outside. (Psalms 84:10)

We also have the following verses:

For a thousand years in Your sight are like yesterday when it passes by,
Or as a watch in the night. (Psalms 90:4)

But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord
one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
(2 Peter 3:8)

But there is no need to think God is trying to trick us, like sunhouse does.
God has already measured thes days for us and tells us that they are made
up of an evening and a morning. This should automatically indicate a day
just like we know it. It is not a trick. The scriptures says that God tells
the end from the beginning, so it is reasonable for us to believe He knew
it was going to take 6 days to make His creation or at least He had the
after the fact knowledge that He could inform Moses.

Yes, the rabbis of old did calculate the coming of the Messiah in the book
of Daniel correctly, but most of the rabbis during that time did not see
it to be Yahshua. But if there was anything wrong with the understanding
of the creation days, why did He not correct it when He came?

Originally posted by sonhouse
So your god just whished his metaphorical fingers and BOING, all of a sudden, with no stars or other such pesky problems, quadrillions of watts of light appeared with no sun to generate it.

Wow.

You say you are educated at least partly in physics, so how can you reconcile our small problem of there wanting to be a source of energy with that really pr ...[text shortened]... stay there, but no, even 2000 years late it continues to dupe people into believing that shyte.

You are a funny guy. Ha ha ha 😀

Originally posted by RJHinds
God generated the light. The Sun and the Moon or the stars are not needed
for light to exist. Christ said, "I am the Light of the World."

you need to learn the difference between figurative speech and actual descriptions.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
you need to learn the difference between figurative speech and actual descriptions.

In this case, it meant both. I recognize His claim to be equal to God.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Being called a rabbi does not make one an authority on the scriptures.
And these guys opinion is not the true teachings from Judaism. You
also so need to get better sources for you meanings of Hebrew words.

I think you are referring to the following verse:

For a day in Your courts is better than a thousand outside. (Psalms 84:10)

We also have the ...[text shortened]... hing wrong with the understanding
of the creation days, why did He not correct it when He came?

Disrespecting those you disagree with is easy. It is foolish but easy. That is why you see those in science disrespection theologians and vice versa.

If you callenge these root words then how are they wrong? Just saying it is so says nothing at all.

God does not trick us, but there are mysteries and things we do not understand. If this were not so then that would make us God.


As for correcting the time line, who says there was anything to correct? I think you will find that scripture is continually misinterpreted. It is what it is.

Originally posted by whodey
Disrespecting those you disagree with is easy. It is foolish but easy. That is why you see those in science disrespection theologians and vice versa.

If you callenge these root words then how are they wrong? Just saying it is so says nothing at all.

God does not trick us, but there are mysteries and things we do not understand. If this were not so t ...[text shortened]... correct? I think you will find that scripture is continually misinterpreted. It is what it is.

Correct! The days recorded in Genesis are regular days with an evening and
a morning. We have divided the day into 24 hours which represents the
time of a complete rotation of the Earth to include both an evening and a
morning. This means the creation was completed in 144 hours. No need
for a debate over the meaning of root words. Case closed. 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
Correct! The days recorded in Genesis are regular days with an evening and
a morning. We have divided the day into 24 hours which represents the
time of a complete rotation of the Earth to include both an evening and a
morning. This means the creation was completed in 144 hours. No need
for a debate over the meaning of root words. Case closed. 😏

Er.....um......yea.