Putting the pieces together

Originally posted by dj2becker
The other option of course is that Satan has deceived you into believing that there is no God.

So all non-believers that were believers have been decieved into that course of action? In that case dj, there's nothing to protect you from the same. I can say that you are worshipping satan, since he has deceived you into believing you are worshipping god, with exactly the same level of certainty. How is the fiery blood-lord working out for you?

Originally posted by dj2becker
The Bible says that the Heavens declare the glory of God. Each person also has a God-given conscience. God can reveal himself to anyone.

God is just. I don't think that he will judge people that are not accountable for their actions.

And what if these people commit heinous sin on a regular basis, but do not know any better?

Originally posted by Starrman
So all non-believers that were believers have been decieved into that course of action? In that case dj, there's nothing to protect you from the same. I can say that you are worshipping satan, since he has deceived you into believing you are worshipping god, with exactly the same level of certainty. How is the fiery blood-lord working out for you?

I can always continue to test my life in accordance with God's Word, and that will show whether or not I am deceived.

Originally posted by Starrman
And what if these people commit heinous sin on a regular basis, but do not know any better?

God has given each man a conscience.

Originally posted by dj2becker
It does not logically follow that all are counterfeits. The word counterfeit implies that there is a genuine artifact.

I agree it is not a logical conclusion (though that doesn't make the reverse true.) Actually my conclusion was based on a considerable amount of other evidence.
Yes, counterfeit is the wrong word to use. Fake or false would be much better.
I must add that I have dismissed many other beliefs and religions (astrology, Islam, Buddhism etc) without actually trying them out as I am sure you have too.
Once bitten twice shy, having realized that my beliefs as a child were false I am now far less inclined to just 'try out' and 'give my whole heart' to every belief that everyone I meet suggests. I now first look for some indication that the person is not only being honest, but also does not show signs of delusion and then I check whether what he is saying makes sense. So far I haven't met anyone who has passed these basic tests.
Of course this means that if your beliefs were genuine I would never find out as you make it clear that they will not make sense until tried.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I agree it is not a logical conclusion (though that doesn't make the reverse true.) Actually my conclusion was based on a considerable amount of other evidence.
Yes, counterfeit is the wrong word to use. Fake or false would be much better.
I must add that I have dismissed many other beliefs and religions (astrology, Islam, Buddhism etc) without actually ine I would never find out as you make it clear that they will not make sense until tried.

The other possibility is that you were looking at the wrong place for the clues of your crossword puzzle. That can possibly be attributed to the total incoherence of your current world view.

Originally posted by dj2becker
I can always continue to test my life in accordance with God's Word, and that will show whether or not I am deceived.

No it won't, as long as satan desires it, the illusion can convince you that you are acting in accordance with god's word when you are not.

Originally posted by dj2becker
God has given each man a conscience.

Are you suggesting that conscience is absolute across humanity?

Originally posted by Starrman
Are you suggesting that conscience is absolute across humanity?

'Conscience' simply means the ability to judge whether an act is right or wrong based on some criteria. All human beings with a sufficiently developed reason have a conscience, yes.

Originally posted by dj2becker
That can possibly be attributed to the total incoherence of your current world view.

Its coherent to me.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
'Conscience' simply means the ability to judge whether an act is right or wrong based on some criteria. All human beings with a sufficiently developed reason have a conscience, yes.

Yet they make different judgments implying either:
1. right and wrong are not absolute.
2. this 'ability' is not perfect (far from it in fact).

I always understood the word to have more meaning than your definition. I understand it to include a feeling of Guilt when a wrong choice is made.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
'Conscience' simply means the ability to judge whether an act is right or wrong based on some criteria. All human beings with a sufficiently developed reason have a conscience, yes.

That's not what I asked. If conscience is not absolute, what is right and wrong for one person may not be for another. If this is the case, sin and conscience in the jungle people cannot be equated.

Originally posted by dj2becker
The other option of course is that Satan has deceived you into believing that there is no God.

So we can all blame Satan on judgment day? How nice.

What happened to free will?

What happened to God being fair? (He let the devil loose on some of us).

So are you claiming to be luckier than the rest of us (you found the truth) or cleverer? Did God pick you at random (yes I know you hate randomness) or does he have some other means of prejudgment.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Yet they make different judgments implying either:
1. right and wrong are not absolute.
2. this 'ability' is not perfect (far from it in fact).

I always understood the word to have more meaning than your definition. I understand it to include a feeling of Guilt when a wrong choice is made.

You might be thinking of the idiom "have something on one's conscience".

Originally posted by Starrman
If this is the case, sin and conscience in the jungle people cannot be equated.

Huh?