Originally posted by sonshipWhen talking about "snake handlers", I'm reminded of Satan taking Christ to the top of a mountain and telling him to throw himself down so that angels would come to his rescue.What I am talking about is the average Christian who has power to tread on serpents, to cast out demons and pray for healing.
Do you think God is happy with charismatic renewal ?
HIs response was not to tempt the Father, something that is lost on snake handlers.
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Originally posted by whodeyPeople dancing around with rattlesnakes in their mouths i have seen. i did not think it was the testimony of Jesus.
When talking about "snake handlers", I'm reminded of Satan taking Christ to the top of a mountain and telling him to throw himself down so that angels would come to his rescue.
HIs response was not to tempt the Father, something that is lost on snake handlers.
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Originally posted by checkbaiterDo I think God is happy with so called charismatic renewal ?
Do you?
No, not fully. i think we were given a heads up in the Bible. Power is one thing. Life is more essential than power.
The lesson of the OT person of Samson is a graphic case in point. Mighty power he had from God. Yet his consecrated living was weak and lacking. And it cost him his sight and his life. He could not tame his passions and a little woman lead him to his death even with all the godly power he possessed.
Power is needed. And I do not say no miracles of God can occur today. But but consecration and life are more essential.
You have to be careful. My own testimony is that as a Christian I had some of my most damaging moral failures WHILE involved with the charismatic things.
I got to realize that divine life was more essential than power.
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Originally posted by sonshipI am not involved with a Charismatic movement. I agree about snake handlers. There is no place in the church for that type of thing, but I do believe in the nine manifestations of the spirit and they are alive and well today.
Do I think God is happy with so called charismatic renewal ?
No, not fully. i think we were given a heads up in the Bible. Power is one thing. Life is more essential than power.
The lesson of the OT person of Samson is a graphic case in point. Mighty power he had from God. Yet his consecrated living was weak and lacking. And it cost him his sight and ...[text shortened]... charismatic things.
I got to realize that divine[b] life was more essential than power.[/b]
I also believe God heals today.
And yes, the biggest miracle of all is the gift of holy spirit, the new birth.
In all of this, wisdom from God is essential to walk worthily of the Lord Jesus Christ.
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Originally posted by checkbaiter
I am not involved with a Charismatic movement. I agree about snake handlers. There is no place in the church for that type of thing, but I do believe in the nine manifestations of the spirit and they are alive and well today.
I also believe God heals today.
And yes, the biggest miracle of all is the gift of holy spirit, the new birth.
In all of this, wisdom from God is essential to walk worthily of the Lord Jesus Christ.
When I speak of life and you speak of walk worthily i believe we are saying much of the same thing.
Walk is determined by depth of life Christ as life. Christ as "life giving Spirit" permeating our attitudes, actions, thought life so that He spontaneously regulates us.
When you speak of "walk worthily" i think you mean the same thing as when i express "life" being essential.
The only other thing i would say is that there is no need to LIMIT the manifestation of the Spirit to nine manifestations. This is probably an attempt to over categorize. Perhaps nine manifestations were enumerated by Paul. I would take them as representative.
Eventually in the normal prevailing church life there is no need to have to categorize the Holy Spirit's manifestations. He is so flowing as a river that categorizing gifts is as unnecessary as categorizing ever ripple or wave in a flowing river.
In the oneness, in the unity, He just flows. We cannot capture into a category all that He does flowing out of the saints. He just is manifested as a flowing stream of "Jesusly " human living.
Wisdom is here. Insight is here. Power is here. endurance, love, longsuffering, giving, selflessness, joy, effective prayer are all here. We do not need to categorize only nine cataloged gifts.
I think you realize some of this when you wisely said that the new birth is the great gift.
Where the Lord obtains the oneness, the Holy Spirit as ointment is poured down on the Head and down, down to the whole Body. He then commands life abundant and forevermore.
" Behold, how good and how pleasant it is For brothers to dwell together in unity!
It is like the fine oil upon the head that ran down upon the beard, Upon Aaron's beard, That ran down to the skirts of his garments;
Like the dew of Hermon that came down upon the mountains of Zion. For there Jehovah commanded the blessing:
Life forever." (Psalm 133)
If we take out place in the oneness of the Body the Holy Spirit will pour down upon the unity even to every member. There is no need to seek an individual baptism of the Holy Spirit. Just being in the oneness we partake of the baptism which is upon the one accord - upon the unity of brothers dwelling in Christ.
This we have tasted in the recovery of the local church life.
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Walk is determined by depth of life Christ as life. Christ as "life giving Spirit" permeating our attitudes, actions, thought life so that He spontaneously regulates us.
When you speak of "walk worthily" i think you mean the same thing as when i express "life" being essential.
Perhaps, but it requires study of the bible. Renewing of the mind requires study and prayer.
Walk is determined by depth of life Christ as life.
I'm not sure what this means, but it is determined by what we know and obey.
We can feed the mind, the world or God's word.
Just off memory we read things like ....
From one of the gospels....Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
From Jeremiah....I found thy words and I did eat them.
From Ephesians "that when you read you may understand..."
From Timothy.... Study to show yourself approved...
Jesus used the words of God to resist Satan during His temptations....
The word of God is sharp, quick, (meaning alive), and powerful to cut through the heart, etc.
Walking worthily is retaining as much of God's word as possible, and then more importantly, "doing it".
Simple stuff, do not steal, but rather work with your hands so that you can give.
Do not lie, do not be bitter, etc. These are things to "take off".
"Put on the new man", be kind, forgiving, gentle, walk in love.
In "everything you do", do it heartily as unto the Lord.
Speak the truth of His word in love to everyone, co-workers, neighbors, family, everyone.
This is renewed mind. Live your life for Jesus Christ. As we obey, we get more and more insight, revelation, joy, peace and understanding.
Jesus promised we would live more than abundantly as we rely on Him and not ourselves.
