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18 Jan 22
@josephw saidOnly in the sense that God does not exist and Christians are just like every other mortal human being.
Perfect.
You do realize of course you're referring to Christians, right?
18 Jan 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI like that point. Christians are just like every other mortal human being.
Only in the sense that God does not exist and Christians are just like every other mortal human being.
After all, where did Christians come from? The answer is obvious.
According to the Book though, the difference should be evident.
18 Jan 22
@fmf saidYou're the one that's dancing around. You're acting like Muhammad Ali.
Don't dance around. You said "the difference should be evident". What "difference" is "evident"?
Just what answer are you looking for? Create a more clearly defined question.
18 Jan 22
@josephw saidAnd what difference is "evident" here? And "evident" to whom?
I like that point. Christians are just like every other mortal human being.
After all, where did Christians come from? The answer is obvious.
According to the Book though, the difference should be evident.
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Hi sonship,
I really would be interested to know how you think Jesus Christ is different today in terms of status from the status He had during His earthly ministry.
This was the first of three questions I will address,
However, since my thread here was called Questions . . . I pose to those examining me on deificartion, I would like you to help me answer by my asking you.
For example, to begin with:
When was Jesus designated the Son of God ?
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I really would be interested to know how you think Jesus Christ is different today in terms of status from the status He had during His earthly ministry.
Because the way of me asking you to help me is too time consumming, I think I will go on.
The change in the status of Jesus Christ during the majority of His earthly ministry occured on the day He was resurrected. Strictly speaking He was still on the earth. So I would say He was still somewhat in His earthly ministry.
But on the day He was resurrected a great change in His status occurred. Briefly in this post, I will say His status changed from "the only begotten Son" (John 1:18) to the "the Firstborn among many brothers" (Rom.8:29) Son of God
His status changed on the day of His resurrection from being ONLY "the only begotten Son of God" to being that still, but in addition "the Firstborn" Son of God.
Today in addition to His status as "only begotten Son of God" He carries the status compounded upon this - "the Firstborn among many brothers".
This additional status was achieved on the day God raises Him in power DESIGNATING Him as the Son of God according to Romans 1:4 and Acts 13:33.
Romans 1:4,5 says "Concerning His Son, who came out of the seed of David according to the flesh, Who was DESIGNATED the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness out of the resurrection of the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord; . . . "
Everything has not been said.
For length's sake this post ends here.
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I really would be interested to know how you think Jesus Christ is different today in terms of status from the status He had during His earthly ministry.
Re-emphaizing what I explained above.
In eternity past Christ was the Son of God.
But He was the Son of God without humanity, without human nature.
"God sent forth His Son" (Rom. 8:3) proves Christ was sent to earth already as the Son of God.
But He in incarnation took on an the creation which is not eternal - flesh, the human nature. He was on earth as "the only begotten Son" to die and shed the blood which He took on for redemption. For without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
But redemption and forgiveness was not God's only goal.
In addition to redeeming us with His blood He planned to impart Himself INTO us that we may be like Him in eternity future. In accompishing this step, Christ, after crucifixion and resurrection was designated the FIRSTBORN Son of God. He sanctified and uplifted in divine exultation that part that He had taken on which He had no in eternity - the human nature.
He was designated on the day of His resurrection the Son of God in the sense not of the only begotten but in the sense of the Firstborn among many brothers. As this Firstborn Son He is leading us who believe through a similar process to sdivinized humanity, uplifted, sanctified, deified that we might be the many sons being lead into the glorious expression of God mingled with man for the manifestation of His glory.
Jesus = the real Joshua leading many sons into glory.
Jesus - the Captian of salvation and Firstborn Son, the Elder Brother leading the saved into the "Son-izing" of redeemed, regenerated, transformed, sanctified, conformed to His image, glorified deified humanity.
This status of Jesus was attained on the day of His resurrection.
"That God has fully fufilled this promise to us their children in raising up Jesus, as it is written in the second Psalm, "You are My Son; this day I have begotten You." (Acts 13:33)
The phrase "this day" means the day of His resurrection.
Accordingly Paul teaches that seed of David was designated the [Firstborn] "Son of God" in power by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead by the Spirit of holiness.
" . . . the gospel of God . . . Concerning His Son, who came out of the seed of David according to the flesh, Who was designated the Son of God [that is Firstborn Son (Rom. 8:29) ] in power according to the Spirit of holiness out of the resurrection of the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord." (Rom. 1:1b,3,4)
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18 Jan 22
@sonship saidNo. Paul said man was the adopted 'son of God.'
Accordingly Paul teaches that seed of David was designated the [Firstborn] "Son of God" in power by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead by the Spirit of holiness.
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For further reading on this
The Life Study of Romans by Witness Lee
contains these words.
B.
Designated
the Son of God
out of Resurrection
Then Paul says that He was “designated the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness out of the resurrection of the dead” (1:4). This is a clear reference to Christ's divinity. Why is His humanity mentioned first and His divinity last?
Paul mentions Christ's humanity first because he maintains the sequence of Christ's process. Firstly, Christ passed through the process of incarnation to become flesh. Then He passed through the process of death and resurrection. By means of the second step of His process He became the Son of God out of resurrection. Christ has been processed in two steps: the first step—incarnation; the second step—death and resurrection. By these two steps Christ became two different things. He became flesh by incarnation and He became the Son of God through death and resurrection. His first step brought God into humanity. His second step brought man into divinity. Before His incarnation, Christ, as a divine Person, already was the Son of God (John 1:18). He was the Son of God before His incarnation, and even Romans 8:3 says, “God sent His Son.” Since Christ already was the Son of God before the incarnation, why did He need to be designated the Son of God out of resurrection? Because by incarnation He had put on an element, the flesh, the human nature, that had nothing to do with divinity. As a divine Person Christ was the Son of God before His incarnation, but that part of Him which was Jesus with the flesh, the human nature, born of Mary, was not the Son of God. That part of Him was human. By His resurrection Christ has sanctified and uplifted that part of His human nature, His humanity, and He was designated out of this resurrection as the Son of God with this human nature. So, in this sense, the Bible says that He was begotten the Son of God in His resurrection (Acts 13:33; Heb. 1:5).
Copied without explicit permission from
https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=06C206CFEA
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18 Jan 22
@sonship saidChristians are advised to avoid these 'higher truths' from Witness Lee and stick to scripture.
For further reading on this
The Life Study of Romans by Witness Lee
contains these words.
[quote] B.
Designated
the Son of God
out of Resurrection
Then Paul says that He was “designated the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness out of the resurrection of the dead” (1:4). This is a clear reference to Christ's divinity. Why is His ...[text shortened]... without explicit permission from
https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=06C206CFEA
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18 Jan 22
@josephw saidWell said Joseph.
The first to rise from the dead, never to die again.
Quit blowing smoke up everyone's arsses.
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I will not be doing "monkey wrench" cracks which are cheaply thrown out.
Substantial objections I may entertain.
Three kinds of objections mean nothing to me.
1. A red thumbs down.
2. Repeated mentions of the name Witness Lee as a kind of "Genetic Fallacy" warning light. Mentioning the name twelve times in a few posts mean nothing substantial to me.
3. Cheapo, brief "throw a trollish monkey wrench" into the works expecting a "whack-o-mole" response dignifying such cheap little thought, knee jerk, snarky
wisecracks.
I apologize if these posters clutter up this discussion with these tactics.