Questions

Originally posted by whodey
He knew the minute detail of the pain and death that awaited him as no mortal could ever know, not only in terms of physical pain but spiritual pain as well that to a large degree eludes us. I am not sure what is worse, is it the actual pain or the anticipation of such agony? He got the best of both worlds.

Edit: If you can tell me the last time you swe ...[text shortened]... pation of a painful experience I might be more inclined to give more credence to your objection.

Not terribly convincing.
Wow his pain was great. Okay.

What about the forced prostitution and brutal gang rape of a captive woman during wartime (or any other time for that matter). She knows what will happen before it happens, and then experiences it, and then again, and again, and again, and so on.
Not sure I could cope with that.

I can't tell you about sweating drops of blood - that sounds like a nice literary allusion. I can relate my experiences with watching my wife give birth twice - and knowing well ahead of time the pain that was to come.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Of course I wouldn't. But then, since I don't believe in God, it's really immaterial for me.

If it's immaterial to you then why bother posting.
You're a funny guy. You must be bored.

I probably won't be back here today, but is there some way of convincing you of the existence of God? If not, should I just give up?

Originally posted by josephw
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all....

Get your priorities strait, man. Then you will see clearly how to remove the beam from your brothers eye.

Beam from my brothers eye? What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Originally posted by whodey
All I can say is that we will never fully understand the pain involved. On the one hand he was tortured physically and on the other hand he knew in advance the torture in detail that would befall him. To add insult to injury he also knew in advance that he and the Father would be seperated for the first and last time if only for a split second. I don't think that any mortal can ever understand this kind of torment.

You people are nuts. Hundreds of thousands of people were crucified and even more have had even more gruesome deaths. Jesus' suffering was no more than any of them. In fact, since he apparently died quickly (Pilate was surprised he was dead so soon; sometimes crucified individuals took days to die), he suffered less than most.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Roman crucifixtion is the most horrible and sure death I know of. The point is He was sinless. He went through it out of love for you and me...have to call it a night...Later

Genghis Khan poured molten silver in the eyes and ears of an foreign leader who offended him. Jesus got off easy.

Originally posted by josephw
is there some way of convincing you of the existence of God? If not, should I just give up?

Empirical data. A photograph would do nicely.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Genghis Khan poured molten silver in the eyes and ears of an foreign leader who offended him. Jesus got off easy.

EVSOA

Originally posted by checkbaiter
A better question would be why was Abraham so obedient?

Why was Abraham so obedient? You haven't as yet denied that you'd do it too?!

Originally posted by whodey
Well said. I think that many here do not fully comprehend the concept of faith. If I place my faith in you I am placing my faith in you to do the right thing no matter what it may look like from the outside. I have no doubt that Abraham fully believed God cared for him and would do what is best for him even though at times what he asked of him was difficul ...[text shortened]... f the prospect of Christ being tortured and then dying must have been horrible to say the least.

OT Monster God had a guy murder his daughter in Judges 11: 29-39. For a discussion and some laughable "interpretations" from the Fundies here, see "Sickening Bible Stories" http://www.timeforchess.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=20100

There's lot of good stuff in there.

Originally posted by josephw
Now I'm laughing. You really don't know why God told Abraham to kill his son.
Just admit it, and if I have time I'll tell you.

And don't be throw off by my apparent arrogant tone.

I can be such a jerk!

Look, I was raised a Christian, I was confirmed at the age of 13, I went to Sunday School, did RE for GCSE. I know the story of Abraham, but it's just not relevant here. Rather than side-track this thread, why don't you just answer the question? If you want to start another thread I'll discuss Abraham there with you.

Originally posted by dottewell
1. Who do you love more - God or your family?

2. If God asked you to kill your family, would you do so?

1. my family.
Ask me who I fear more and it'll be God

2. If God actually came to me and asked me to do anything at all .. i'd do it.

The thing is, if God actually appeared before me i'd know FOR SURE that He exists. At that point the 'fear of God' would take over.
Think about it, if you believed it was God, you'd be compelled to do whatever He asked of you.
I don't believe anyone of us could deny God if He appeared before us and we knew it was Him.

Originally posted by jammer
1. my family.
Ask me who I fear more and it'll be God

2. If God actually came to me and asked me to do anything at all .. i'd do it.

The thing is, if God actually appeared before me i'd know FOR SURE that He exists. At that point the 'fear of God' would take over.
Think about it, if you believed it was God, you'd be compelled to do whatever He asked ...[text shortened]... on't believe anyone of us could deny God if He appeared before us and we knew it was Him.

Then where was the test for Abraham?

Originally posted by Starrman
Then where was the test for Abraham?

IMO the only test would be whether you believed it was actually God asking you to do these things.
Once you're convinced it's really God the debate is over .. only a fool would disobey at that point.

Originally posted by jammer
a fool would disobey at that point.

A fool and his mummy aren't easily parted.