18 Sep 21
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@medullah saidI am a member of an Episcopal church, which is the American equivalent of the Anglican churches.
When you say "main line" does that also embrace Catholic and Protestant/Anglican, coz I cant say that i have ever heard of either saying too much about Revelation.
When I said mainline, I meant Protestant churches, but I'm sure the Catholics have similar teachings.
Most churches I've been to and talked with their members, and most are a bit more concerned with living by following Christ in the here and now, helping their fellow man (yes, works), and a bit less about what will come to pass in a future that may not be here for some time. In order to overcome, we need to get there, first. But most all Protestant churches follow the established ideas of a Tribulation and Antichrist, and, in most cases, some form of rapture event or events.
18 Sep 21
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@sonship saidIt’s irrelevant what I think is meaningless concerning the Bible given that I am 100% convinced that it’s a work fantastical fiction.
@kevcvs57
[quote] So it’s open to the interpretation to the point of meaninglessness.
I’m guessing there are as many bibles as there are Christians and then throw in how each Christian is feeling on any given day that they are reading / interpreting it into the equation and your close to an infinite number of bibles for all intents and purposes.
Don’t feel bad though we in ...[text shortened]... o far was without meaning, I
will consider that.
Thanks
Now what was meaningless to you?
I meant meaningless, or perhaps a better word is useless, in the sense of it being a binding text for Christians.
Suzianne points out that the vast majority of the text is agreed upon by the vast majority of Christians.
Would you agree with that appraisal?
I have to say as a non Christian who pops in here from time to time it’s not the impression I get, I would guess that rather than this being a spirituality forum per se it’s more of a gladiatorial arena where the Christians are thrown to the Christians.
18 Sep 21
@suzianne saidThat's really interesting, thank you for taking the time to explain.
I am a member of an Episcopal church, which is the American equivalent of the Anglican churches.
When I said mainline, I meant Protestant churches, but I'm sure the Catholics have similar teachings.
Most churches I've been to and talked with their members, and most are a bit more concerned with living by following Christ in the here and now, helping their fellow man (y ...[text shortened]... hed ideas of a Tribulation and Antichrist, and, in most cases, some form of rapture event or events.
Personally I cant subscribe to teaching not defined in the bible, such as a "Rapture". I sat in on a discourse on the subject last year where the speaker was suggesting that that it would start last September. But I guess there are variations on a theme like many things.
18 Sep 21
@kevcvs57 saidThat is (from my point of view) a fair observation. Love goes out of the window and we do see things getting very pointed around here.
It’s irrelevant what I think is meaningless concerning the Bible given that I am 100% convinced that it’s a work fantastical fiction.
I meant meaningless, or perhaps a better word is useless, in the sense of it being a binding text for Christians.
Suzianne points out that the vast majority of the text is agreed upon by the vast majority of Christians.
Would you agree wit ...[text shortened]... ty forum per se it’s more of a gladiatorial arena where the Christians are thrown to the Christians.
On your point of fantastical fiction I have waited for over 35 years for now. I have always believed in the time (based on that fiction) when the US/UK Alliance would dominate the scene and bring in the Mark of The Beast (Rev 13:16) , which I think will prove to be the vaccine passport. Earlier interviews with Bill Gates suggests this to be the case.
Beasts = political powers.
@medullah saidAnd there is a very long list of those teachings, many of which the churches claim you MUST believe in, or do, in order to be 'saved' or get eternal life. Some of these churches really have become the worst place to be if you want to follow Christ and get eternal life.
Personally I cant subscribe to teaching not defined in the bible,
18 Sep 21
@medullah saidWell I wouldn’t argue with the description of political powers as beasts but I would suggest that those beasts have been with us since before the authorship of revelations and were probably written with the authors contemporary beasts in mind.
That is (from my point of view) a fair observation. Love goes out of the window and we do see things getting very pointed around here.
On your point of fantastical fiction I have waited for over 35 years for now. I have always believed in the time (based on that fiction) when the US/UK Alliance would dominate the scene and bring in the Mark of The Beast (Rev 13:16) , whic ...[text shortened]... port. Earlier interviews with Bill Gates suggests this to be the case.
Beasts = political powers.
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It’s irrelevant what I think is meaningless concerning the Bible given that I am 100% convinced that it’s a work fantastical fiction.
I would see your attitude to be more like this:
You hope that the Bible is untrue from beginning to end ?
I think you prefer, you hope there is nothing there to be taken seriously.
Why do you prefer that God be fictional?
History in the West is delineated with a line - BC and AD.
This means "Since this person has lived nothing will be ever the same again".
But to you Jesus of Nazareth is pure fiction for entertainment.
Why do you hope Jesus Christ with the impact of His life and words are
cataclysmic upon world history are to be dismissed as just fantastic fiction?
Do you have vested interest in nothing Jesus said being true?
I meant meaningless, or perhaps a better word is useless, in the sense of it being a binding text for Christians.
Suzianne points out that the vast majority of the text is agreed upon by the vast majority of Christians.
Would you agree with that appraisal?
I'll have to review her comment. I don't recall her saying that exactly.
I recall her saying something of an interpretation I gave mostly she agreed with.
I will have to re-check what she wrote.
I have to say as a non Christian who pops in here from time to time it’s not the impression I get, I would guess that rather than this being a spirituality forum per se it’s more of a gladiatorial arena where the Christians are thrown to the Christians.
I just finished reading the last few chapters of the book of Joshua. It is about the land of Canaan being divided up among the twelve tribes. Hundreds of specific places are mentioned. The mapping of the land is detailed. The borders drawn are specific geographically.
There are thousands of names mentioned in the Bible.
There are hundreds of geographical places mentioned of antiquity.
The Bible is anything but a "Once Upon a Time in Far Off Land" kind of book.
It is a library of books compiled over 1500 years. It is authored by 40 authors of DIVERSE backgrounds. There is a unity of scheme and purpose throughout these sixty six books.
Saying in is 100% fiction is naivete on your part.
The Jews are history.
Jerusalem is history.
Where today are the Hittites, the Jebusite, the Amorites, the Hivites, the Philistines, the many other peoples mentioned in the Old Testament? How come a little ethnic group - the Jews, have lasted the passage of time?
The Jews may reject Jesus, but they say by and large their roots of Sabbath, Passover, and various feasts are rooted in the accounts of the Bible.
"Its 100% fantastical fiction" sounds like wishful thinking on your part to me.
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18 Sep 21
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Some other professional opinions
What seven New Testament books do most skeptical scholars accept, and why?
Evidence that Genesis is History and Not Myth
&t=4143s
Dr. Gary Habermas
2 Top Historical Scholars PROVE that Jesus Rose (Gary Habermas and Mike Licona)
&t=277s
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18 Sep 21
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It’s irrelevant what I think is meaningless concerning the Bible given that I am 100% convinced that it’s a work fantastical fiction.
Okay.
What do you do on Christmas?
Do you think there is ANY conceivable background in history contributing to celebrating the birth of Jesus?
I did not say do you think everything about the tradition is true, dates of birth for example.
I ask you if you think there is any conceivable background in history contributing to
such a wide spread commemoration of a person's birth ?
Or do you believe the tradition of celebrating the birth of Jesus is rooted 100% in pure fantastical fiction?
18 Sep 21
@rajk999 saidHistorically you could even been put to death for not adopting them, the holy trinity being a good example.
And there is a very long list of those teachings, many of which the churches claim you MUST believe in, or do, in order to be 'saved' or get eternal life. Some of these churches really have become the worst place to be if you want to follow Christ and get eternal life.
18 Sep 21
@kevcvs57 saidI get that it isn't your thing but check out Revelation 13 - quite a way ahead of its time and needed a certain level of technology to enforce.
Well I wouldn’t argue with the description of political powers as beasts but I would suggest that those beasts have been with us since before the authorship of revelations and were probably written with the authors contemporary beasts in mind.
"16 He causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 so that no one may buy or sell, except he who has the mark or the name of the beast or the number of his name. "
22 Sep 21
@sonship saidI do what most Europeans have done for millennia I celebrate my survival to the mid winter point by eating the foods I preserved during the late summer and autumn.
@kevcvs57It’s irrelevant what I think is meaningless concerning the Bible given that I am 100% convinced that it’s a work fantastical fiction.
Okay.
What do you do on Christmas?
Do you think there is ANY conceivable background in history contributing to celebrating the birth of Jesus?
I did not say do you think everything about the tradi ...[text shortened]... believe the tradition of celebrating the birth of Jesus is rooted 100% in pure fantastical fiction?
Your wrong, as usual, I don’t prefer there to be no biblical gif figure, there clearly just isn’t. It’s not my fault your favourite fantasy fiction did not stand the test of time.