Red-Letter Atheists v Black Letter Christians

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Putting such distinctions and rarities to the side: why is the following not logical?

If, 'good works follow as evidence that someone’s faith and belief in Christ is sincere,' then it naturally follows that a Christian who doesn't do good works isn't sincere and won't be saved.

Hence good works are essential for salvation.

It’s logical except for the reason I mentioned *and* I would posit that it also depends on how broken someone is when he or she accepts Christ. If they are badly broken, you can hardly expect them to immediately leap up and do good works.

This focus on good works really hinders one’s walk with Christ because it takes one’s eyes off Christ and onto self.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Why do you always resort to calling people trolls when you are losing an argument? And how does that add any substance to a discussion?.

When somebody posts nothing but insults and their post has no substance, I say, imo correctly, that they’re trolling.

Originally posted by @romans1009
It’s logical except for the reason I mentioned *and* I would posit that it also depends on how broken someone is when he or she accepts Christ. If they are badly broken, you can hardly expect them to immediately leap up and do good works.

This focus on good works really hinders one’s walk with Christ because it takes one’s eyes off Christ and onto self.

WHATTT ???!!!!

Originally posted by @romans1009
It’s logical except for the reason I mentioned *and* I would posit that it also depends on how broken someone is when he or she accepts Christ. If they are badly broken, you can hardly expect them to immediately leap up and do good works.

This focus on good works really hinders one’s walk with Christ because it takes one’s eyes off Christ and onto self.

Paul said good works were 'inevitable' for a Christian. Clearly, a Christian who doesn't do good works won't be among the saved.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Take your time and digest this:

[i]For there is no respect of persons with God.
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law:
and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God,
but the doers of the law shall be justified.
For when the Gentiles, which hav ...[text shortened]... of persons with God.
All people will be judged fairly.
Jews
Gentiles
Christians
All People.

Paul is comparing Jews to Gentiles here and is saying judgment for sin will come with or without the law.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make as Paul is simply telling Jews that, even though they were God’s “chosen people,” under the New Covenant, being righteous (in right standing with God) was available to Gentiles as well.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Paul said good works were 'inevitable' for a Christian. Clearly, a Christian who doesn't do good works won't be among the saved.

If someone does not do good works after accepting Christ, it’s evidence that they did not accept Christ sincerely and believe in Him in their heart because if they had, God’s Holy Spirit would indwell them and change them for the better, a process known as sanctification.

Originally posted by @romans1009
If someone does not do good works after accepting Christ, it’s evidence that they did not accept Christ sincerely and believe in Him in their heart because if they had, God’s Holy Spirit would indwell them and change them for the better, a process known as sanctification.

So we are agreed that mouth worship by itself is not an indicator of being saved (as this can be done insincerely). Salvation is only validated by good works.

Originally posted by @rajk999
WHATTT ???!!!!

LOL

Care to elaborate?

You don’t understand that thinking you’re justified by the law and good works causes one to think of themselves and their performance, while recognizing that one is justified by Jesus Christ and owes their salvation to Him causes one to focus on Christ?

You really don’t understand that?

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
So we are agreed that mouth worship by itself is not an indicator of being saved (as this can be done insincerely). Salvation is only validated by good works.

I have never said mouth worship was an indicator or evidence that someone is saved. Where did you get that?

I said one is saved by believing in Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Paul said good works were 'inevitable' for a Christian. Clearly, a Christian who doesn't do good works won't be among the saved.

As Jesus said in Matt 25.. its was because the sheep did good works they were welcomed into the Kingdom of God. The goats did nothing and were cast out.

Originally posted by @romans1009
I have never said mouth worship was an indicator or evidence that someone is saved. Where did you get that?

I said one is saved by believing in Jesus Christ.

The devils also believe.
Annanias and Saphira as well.
Billions of Christians believe too.
I guess you will have lots of company where you are heading.

Originally posted by @rajk999
The devils also believe.
Annanias and Saphira as well.
Billions of Christians believe too.
I guess you will have lots of company where you are heading.

There you go again, sitting in judgment of others and saying they’re going to hell - and only about an hour after denying you ever said that.

You really have no shame and I see no evidence that the love of God is in you. I just see contempt for Christ and hate.

We already went over Annanias and Sapphira - not interested in repeating myself.

Yes, demons believe Christ is the Son of God, but not in their heart, not as a committed and self-sacrificing belief, and they haven’t accepted Him as their Lord and Saviour. Also, Christ’s sacrificial death on the cross was to cover the sins of mankind (i.e. the world,) not the sins of immortal demons.

Originally posted by @rajk999
As Jesus said in Matt 25.. its was because the sheep did good works they were welcomed into the Kingdom of God. The goats did nothing and were cast out.

You think believing in Christ a la John 3:16 and Romans 10:9 are exclusive of one another and an either/or proposition. You couldn’t be more wrong. Jesus Christ said many times in the Gospels that belief in Him was necessary for salvation; the fact He didn’t repeat that in a parable is not significant.

Originally posted by @romans1009
You think believing in Christ a la John 3:16 and Romans 10:9 are exclusive of one another and an either/or proposition. You couldn’t be more wrong. Jesus Christ said many times in the Gospels that belief in Him was necessary for salvation; the fact He didn’t repeat that in a parable is not significant.

Jesus Christ said many times in the Gospels that belief in Him was necessary for salvation

In your mind what exactly what was Jesus saying "believing Him" / "believing in Him" entails?

Originally posted by @thinkofone
[b]Jesus Christ said many times in the Gospels that belief in Him was necessary for salvation

In your mind what exactly what was Jesus saying "believing Him" / "believing in Him" entails?[/b]

Believing in Him means a sincere, committed and self-sacrificing belief where one accepts Him as their Lord and Saviour and lives for Him. That, and the indwelling of God’s Holy Spirit in a believer, is why good works will naturally follow saving belief and faith in Christ.

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”

(John 6:47)