17 Dec 06
Originally posted by whiteroseFrom Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary:
Well, I suppose I would agree with the Buddhists in that they consider themselves religious because they have faith in something that they cannot prove scientifically, rather than because they have faith in something supernatural. But I suppose the dictionary definition of religion does say "supenatural" so maybe there needs to be a better word for the spiritual beliefs of people like me and the Buddhists.
re·li·gion
1 a : the state of a religious b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/religion
re·li·gious
1 : relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity
2 : of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances
3 a : scrupulously and conscientiously faithful b : FERVENT, ZEALOUS
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/religious
So it doesn't have to do with the supernatural, that's just one possible definition. As it has so many different meanings, it's hard to know what people mean when they talk about religion or being religious.
17 Dec 06
Originally posted by NordlysIndeed. Christianity seems to have a very negative connotation in the US.
Another thing I have noticed a lot here is that people very often use "Christian" to mean "Christian fundamentalist". That was quite surprising to me, because the vast majority of Christians I have met outside TFC are not fundamentalists.
17 Dec 06
Belief in religion?
That's a bit strange isn't it? How could you not believe in religion? That'd be like not believing in trees. Religions exist and I believe they exist - so in that sense I believe in them.
What I don't believe in is the supernatural crap they sprout.
By the way, Thomas Altizer, a christian theologian wrote The Gospel of Christian Atheism, back in the 1960s I think - you can read it at http://www.religion-online.org/showbook.asp?title=523
18 Dec 06
Originally posted by amannionYou're just playing with words. You know perfectly well that believing religion exists is not the same thing as believing in it. Would you consider a Buddhist to be religious? I think they would define themselves as such, although as far as I know they do not believe in the supernatural. Apparently, as defined above, belief in the supernatural is not a prerequisite for religion. The only prerequisite is having faith in something that you cannot prove (at least not scientifically).
Belief in religion?
That's a bit strange isn't it? How could you not believe in religion? That'd be like not believing in trees. Religions exist and I believe they exist - so in that sense I believe in them.
What I don't believe in is the supernatural crap they sprout.
By the way, Thomas Altizer, a christian theologian wrote The Gospel of Christian Ath ...[text shortened]... the 1960s I think - you can read it at http://www.religion-online.org/showbook.asp?title=523
A Christian atheist!? Now there is a contradiction in terms.
18 Dec 06
Originally posted by whiteroseFor me there is no contradition at all in the term "religious atheist." I know many. They don't believe in God, but really don't find the question that important because they think of religion as principles to live by, not as a dogma with supernatural components.
You're just playing with words. You know perfectly well that believing religion exists is not the same thing as believing in it. Would you consider a Buddhist to be religious? I think they would define themselves as such, although as far as I know they do not believe in the supernatural. Apparently, as defined above, belief in the supernatural is not a pre ...[text shortened]... (at least not scientifically).
A Christian atheist!? Now there is a contradiction in terms.
In other words, they believe that being a good person is important -- probably for a variety of reasons -- and don't feel the need for a God or gods to tell them so.
Buddhists are certainly religious.
Putting the two definitions together:
Religion is: "a personal set or institutionalized system of ... attitudes, beliefs, and practices ... relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity."
18 Dec 06
Originally posted by whiteroseBuddhists start with the belief that desire is the root of all suffering. That's not really a supernatural belief -- and certainly there is a lot of evidence for it -- but it is still a belief. I would think that the practice of meditation and the concept of Enlightenment also relate more to belief than to science or philosophy.
Well, I suppose I would agree with the Buddhists in that they consider themselves religious because they have faith in something that they cannot prove scientifically, rather than because they have faith in something supernatural. But I suppose the dictionary definition of religion does say "supenatural" so maybe there needs to be a better word for the spiritual beliefs of people like me and the Buddhists.
But maybe Buddhists would not object to the term 'Buddhist philosophy' instead of 'Buddhist religion.' Maybe they would even prefer it.
18 Dec 06
Originally posted by whiteroseYou have to be this or that, everything is black or white, don't you know.
It seems that by dictionary definitions this is what I am, along with many other religious people. However, to me it sounds like a contradiction in terms. I think this may be because many people use atheism to mean lack of belief in any religion, rather than lack of belief in God. Any thoughts?
You are not a Buddhist, by the way; or at least, if you are, you're not a Buddhist.
18 Dec 06
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI never said I was a Buddhist. The fact that everything is not as black and white as many people make out is exactly my point.
You have to be this or that, everything is black or white, don't you know.
You are not a Buddhist, by the way; or at least, if you are, you're not a Buddhist.
19 Dec 06
Originally posted by telerionIf God were as simple-minded as you imagine Him to be, he just might have you as a spokesperson.
Mince words all you like, heathens. No matter what you call yourself, God calls you doomed to hell. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I feel only great sadness for your confused souls.
Save the evil laughter and monologue for the comic books.