31 May 08
2 edits
Originally posted by PinkFloydI come from a country officially +90% Catholic and I almost never heard anybody saying that if you don't do something you go to hell. I also lived in France and again never heard anything of the sort. People can tell you that they feel something is wrong and say that this is not in accordance to God's teachings, but they never use the threat of hell to make you comply. The percentage of people that believes in a literal hell is very, very small.
I don't often jear that Christianity is a tolerant faith. If by tolerant you mean Christians don't kill people who refuse to convert, then I agree with you. But if you mean it as a live-and-let-live, there are many ways to heaven/I'm OK You're OK, then my experience has been the opposite: if you're not saved you're destined for hell is pretty standatd.
I don't give anybody a "free pass", scottishinnz, but I do know for a fact that the vision most people have of Catholics and Christians is based on the more fundamentalist (and vocal) parts of US Christians. In Europe, Christianity is a very different animal. If I say in Portugal that I'm an atheist and ask people if they believe I'll go to hell because of that, almost all of them will say no.
So, no. If you're not saved, you're destined for hell is NOT standard.
31 May 08
1 edit
Originally posted by Palynka"If I say in Portugal that I'm an atheist and ask people if they believe I'll go to hell because of that, almost all of them will say no.
I come from a country officially +90% Catholic and I almost never heard anybody saying that if you don't do something you go to hell. I also lived in France and again never heard anything of the sort. People can tell you that they feel something is wrong and say that this is not in accordance to God's teachings, but they never use the threat of hell to make will say no.
So, no. If you're not saved, you're destined for hell is NOT standard.
That's because that isn't the reason why one goes to hell. One will spend eternity separated from God because they reject His son. Rejecting Christ is how one is separated from God forever.
First, people Deny the existence of God, then they scoff at the idea that God has provided a way to receive eternal life through His son Jesus Christ. This is the heart of the gospel. We all are separated from God by sin. Sin is dealt with at the cross. Rejecting Christ means that one is still in their sin when they die. It's a hard truth to accept, but it is the truth nonetheless.
31 May 08
Originally posted by josephwWhat defines 'rejecting' Christ? As an atheist, obviously I cannot believe that his message was divine in any form.
[b]"If I say in Portugal that I'm an atheist and ask people if they believe I'll go to hell because of that, almost all of them will say no.
That's because that isn't the reason why one goes to hell. One will spend eternity separated from God because they reject His son. Rejecting Christ is how one is separated from God forever.
First, people Deny ...[text shortened]... in their sin when they die. It's a hard truth to accept, but it is the truth nonetheless.[/b]
01 Jun 08
Originally posted by PalynkaYou answered your own question! Unbelief is rejection of God's gift of eternal life through His son Jesus Christ. It's that simple, and it has nothing to do with religion.
What defines 'rejecting' Christ? As an atheist, obviously I cannot believe that his message was divine in any form.
02 Jun 08
Originally posted by josephwNo it isn't. It is because there are a lot of Christians who do not believe as you do that belief in God or Jesus is a requirement for entry into heaven.
That's because that isn't the reason why one goes to hell.
I knew an Anglican priest who told me that he did not believe that atheists automatically went to hell.
02 Jun 08
Originally posted by josephwso all the people that died before Christ and all the people who died without hearing of Christ and all the people that lived a good life(muslims, budhists, etc) and were nicer than most christians are going to hell? Or will be separated from God for ever?
[b]"If I say in Portugal that I'm an atheist and ask people if they believe I'll go to hell because of that, almost all of them will say no.
That's because that isn't the reason why one goes to hell. One will spend eternity separated from God because they reject His son. Rejecting Christ is how one is separated from God forever.
First, people Deny ...[text shortened]... in their sin when they die. It's a hard truth to accept, but it is the truth nonetheless.[/b]
I somehow doubt that.
How about the faith that if you accept Christ as your saviour you are forgiven and will go to heaven even if you are a child rapist and a serial killer? Is that person worthier of heaven than a budhist monk or an atheist child surgeon?
Your god needs a better public relations man.
02 Jun 08
Originally posted by josephwSo according to you, I would go to hell for being an atheist. And yet on your first comment on my post, you said that wasn't the reason for being sent to hell.
You answered your own question! Unbelief is rejection of God's gift of eternal life through His son Jesus Christ. It's that simple, and it has nothing to do with religion.
02 Jun 08
2 edits
I think to be truely tolerant you have to have something first.
A person who is sloppy, indifferent, noncommital, and lost is not really tolerant.
Show me a person who first has a strong belief in something. Then we can determine how tolerant he is with others who believe differently.
A lot of people who boast of being tolerant actually have nothing much within them to be tolerant about towards others.
02 Jun 08
2 edits
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How about the faith that if you accept Christ as your saviour you are forgiven and will go to heaven even if you are a child rapist and a serial killer? Is that person worthier of heaven than a budhist monk or an atheist child surgeon?
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You don't understand the Gospel.
If you believe into Jesus Christ you do indeed get to be saved from eternal damnation.
You do NOT get to remain the same kind of person you were when you were not saved.
So yes, a rapist or serial killer can come to Christ to be forgiven as if he had never sinned. He does not get to remain non-conformed to the image of Jesus Christ forever. He must and will be transformed into the image of Jesus Christ.
You may be forgiven all sins. You cannot postpone forever your transformation to become just like Jesus.
Think of it this way: God forgives you and says "You and I are incompatible. And by the way, I don't change."
That is a more accurate understanding of how the Gospel works.
02 Jun 08
Originally posted by jaywillGood post jaywill!
[b]=====================================
How about the faith that if you accept Christ as your saviour you are forgiven and will go to heaven even if you are a child rapist and a serial killer? Is that person worthier of heaven than a budhist monk or an atheist child surgeon?
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You don't understand t ...[text shortened]... y, I don't change." [/b]
That is a more accurate understanding of how the Gospel works.[/b]
03 Jun 08
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillthis is not a good post. it is not even an ok one.
[b]=====================================
How about the faith that if you accept Christ as your saviour you are forgiven and will go to heaven even if you are a child rapist and a serial killer? Is that person worthier of heaven than a budhist monk or an atheist child surgeon?
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You don't understand t y, I don't change." [/b]
That is a more accurate understanding of how the Gospel works.[/b]
If you believe into Jesus Christ you do indeed get to be saved from eternal damnation.
conditions? doesn't say. basically if you are an evil bastard(serial killer) all your life and then accept jessus as saviour, you get to go to heaven. but if you are a budhist who vowed not to hurt a fly and kept his promise, or if as a pediatrician you saved thousands of children but remained an atheist, you would go to hell(or certainly not heaven)
Where the fu*k is the justice here? What kind of an evil God is this? This is what's wrong with you people, if something is written in the bible, you don't get to question it, even if it is as ridiculous as this.
He does not get to remain non-conformed to the image of Jesus Christ forever. He must and will be transformed into the image of Jesus Christ.
huh? what exactly does that mean?
or this:
You cannot postpone forever your transformation to become just like Jesus.
Think of it this way: God forgives you and says "You and I are incompatible. And by the way, I don't change."
That is a more accurate understanding of how the Gospel works.
accurate? i find this "explanation" harder to understand than a drunk chinese explaining quantum physics. in chinese