Romans Two Natures

Originally posted by @fmf
Well, I hear what you say, but I believe you balked at the question for the reason I gave.

You believe you are right about many things in which you are wrong. Why should this be any different?

Originally posted by @eladar
You believe you are right about many things in which you are wrong. Why should this be any different?

Why do I think I am right in this instance? Well, for one thing, because of the way you have reacted.

Originally posted by @fmf
Why do I think I am right in this instance? Well, for one thing, because of the way you have reacted.

Does it matter what you think?

Homey don't think so. You need to crawl back into that bottle you came from.

Originally posted by @sonship

We can grow and be more like Christ, but at no point will we escape sin as long as we are alive in these bodies.

This is one of the things I found wonderful about the Gospel. I eventually saw that Christ's salvation encompassed my whole entire being.

Not only my entire being - spirit and soul and body, but the environment to - the creation.
That is the creation which awaits eagerly the manifestation of the sons of God.

I think what he means is what John stated when he said "if we say we have no sin....", you know the verse. We will not be completely rid of it until we are raptured.

Originally posted by @eladar

Paul writes that we should be slaves to righteousness and no longer sin. It isn't just a should, it is a must.

All the righteous living is by being in the realm of the indwelling victorious Christ within.

It is Christ living in us as we set the mind on the mingled spirit where the Spirit of Christ has been imparted through the new birth.

This Spirit of Christ is like the most fantastically healthy beverage which contains every vitamin the body needs. All the rich healing and germ killing nutrients are the contents of this beverage.

Even the killing power of His death is in the "beverage" of His Spirit. By this Spirit of Christ then the believer can "put to death" the practices of the fallen body.

"For if we live according to the flesh, you must die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the practices of the body, you will live." (Rom. 8:13)

The believer has to turn to the spirit where the Spirit of Jesus is to put to death the practices of the fallen body.

Gritting our teeth, hating sin, and trying hard to do self improvement is self defeating. Sin in the flesh will react on general principle like a living opportunistic person mastering us.

Here Paul shows how pursuing law keeping rather than touching the Spirit of Christ led to defeat.

" What then shall we say? Is the law sin? Absolutely not!

But I did not know sin except through the law; for neither did I know coveting except the law had said, You shall not covet.

But sin, seizing the opportunity through the commandment, worked out in me coveting of every kind, for without the law sin is dead." (Rom. 7:7,8)

Paul labors to bring us into believing in Christ as the more powerful One Who has been dispensed into the innermost spirit of the saved man. No hope is in the good acting flesh apart from switching on the life power of Christ.

"That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit.

For those who are according to the flesh mind the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the spirit, the things of the Spirit."

For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace." (Rom. 8:4-6)

When born again, Christ the only victorious Person comes in His form as the life giving Spirit to live a mingled life with us. But we are not use to living in this realm. We must learn to set the mind on the mingled spirit where the Spirit of Christ is joined to us.

"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17)

There is life and peace.
There we can overcome.
There we can avail ourselves even of the death of Christ as ingredients of His Spirit to put to death "germs" within us.

There in the sphere of the mingled spirit we can be led of God to become sons of God.

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." (Rom. 8:14)

Our victory as Christians is not in ourselves apart from Christ. Victory is in Him.
Only the Son of God is absolute for the will of the Father.
And Spirit of His Son alone can empower us to overcoming.

The Apostle Paul's final concluding word in the New Testament was a reminder to Timothy that the Lord Jesus was WITH his regenerated spirit. And there, with his spirit, is the empowering grace of Christ.

" The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you." ( Second Timothy 4:22)

This is as if Paul was saying - "Timothy, whatever you do, do not forget that in you, with you in your deepest spiritual part is the Lord Jesus Himself. His enabling grace be with you."

Grace is just the enjoyment of God Himself to be whatever we need.

Originally posted by @sonship
For those who are according to the flesh mind the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace." (Rom. 8:4-6)

If someone - say, an atheist or a Hindu, or a Jew ~in other words, someone who simply did not believe in Jesus - devoted their whole lives to helping lepers in slums of Jakarta, would that be an example of "the mind set on the flesh" that you are talking about, and would their lifelong work be an example of "the things of the flesh"?

Originally posted by @checkbaiter
I think what he means is what John stated when he said "if we say we have no sin....", you know the verse. We will not be completely rid of it until we are raptured.

I agree, not that we are free to sin, but our nature is such that it is a part of us, and
we require God to set us free from it. We no longer have to obey our lusts, but can follow
God's Spirit and when we do so we will not sin. If we however follow our fleshly desires,
than sin still has a hold on us, we need to over come that. Since while we are in the flesh
and have not put on our Incorruptible bodies yet, we are still fighting the good fight.

Without God's Spirit, we not only don't belong to God, we lack that which we require to
live over coming lives, thus not walking out our lives doing the works God has for us. For
those times we do stumble, we have an advocate Christ the Lord.

Originally posted by @kellyjay

We no longer have to obey our lusts, but can follow
God's Spirit and when we do so we will not sin.

Usually, after many, many failures we get the point. Apart from abiding in Christ the divine life giving Holy Spirit, we will fall.

Now some people have good strong religious energy. In that case their successes add to their pride. But they too will fall on their face somewhere.

Sooner or latter we must realize that no one is absolute for the Father's will except Christ the Son of God. He lives in the believers. And we must learn to touch Him within.

Originally posted by @kellyjay

Without God's Spirit, we not only don't belong to God, we lack that which we require to live over coming lives, thus not walking out our lives doing the works God has for us. For those times we do stumble, we have an advocate Christ the Lord.

We have an Intercessor, an Advocate with the Father. How we need to learn to rest in His intercession.

His interceding is powerful. But we need to trust in it and rest in it.

we may even forget that we call on the name of the Lord Jesus. But He does not forget. we ought to remind ourselves in prayer -

Lord Jesus, I did call on You Lord. I thereby rest in Your intercession before the face of God on my behalf. You are my Advocate - Attorney - Helper - High Priest undertaking my case.

The more we thank and praise this way declaring that we trust His Intercession the better.

He will keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Him, because he TRUSTS in Him.

" You will keep the steadfast of mind in perfect peace Because he trusts in You.

Trust in Jehovah forever and ever, For in Jah Jehovah, we have an eternal rock." (Isaiah 25:3,4)