18 Dec 13
1 edit
Way to cheapen the bible, Whodey! It is now apparently an history book incorporating reallife events with fantasy.
Yes, it's quite possible - probable, even - that certain historical events have been intertwined in the bible. In fact, I'd think that the character of Jesus is based on one or more important/influential/insane people that lived back then.
But that is in no way evidence that the stories are actually true. There was no "Finger of God" (Just like with Adam and Eve, you can't use "The Finger of God" to prove God, Whodey. Certainly you must understand how incredibly flawed that argument is??), there were no plagues (disasters probably, no plagues), and there is no heaven.
In all these examples you are essentially using the powers of god to prove that god exists.
My question stands: And why do you think these stories (!) in the bible have any truth in them?
18 Dec 13
Originally posted by Great King RatMany have tried, and all have failed to prove the Bible wrong.
Way to cheapen the bible, Whodey! It is now apparently an history book incorporating reallife events with fantasy.
Yes, it's quite possible - probable, even - that certain historical events have been intertwined in the bible. In fact, I'd think that the character of Jesus is based on one or more important/influential/insane people that lived back t ...[text shortened]...
My question stands: And why do you think these stories (!) in the bible have any truth in them?
You need to come to terms with that fact, Rat. 😉
You cannot prove the scriptures wrong. Until you do they stand true.
Gripes your ars doesn't it?
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18 Dec 13
Originally posted by josephwYou have got it backwards.
Many have tried, and all have failed to prove the Bible wrong.
You need to come to terms with that fact, Rat. 😉
You cannot prove the scriptures wrong. Until you do they stand true.
Gripes your ars doesn't it?
[apart from the fact that they have been thoroughly disproved]
The scriptures stand unproven, until they are proven true or false.
18 Dec 13
Originally posted by Great King RatNo plagues? Really? I don't think that vermin like you even you believe that. The better question becomes, when have their been plagues and why?
Way to cheapen the bible, Whodey! It is now apparently an history book incorporating reallife events with fantasy.
Yes, it's quite possible - probable, even - that certain historical events have been intertwined in the bible. In fact, I'd think that the character of Jesus is based on one or more important/influential/insane people that lived back t ...[text shortened]...
My question stands: And why do you think these stories (!) in the bible have any truth in them?
Naturally you reject the supernatural aspects of the Bible, and because of this you are willing to throw it out altogether. Why then is there the scientific acknowledgement as to the value of the book, namely Biblical Archaeology?
It is for us to read these stories and seek the truth in them, not glibly toss the book aside as if it were mere dung. Characters like Jesus are real, so it is up to us to determine if the Bible presents them in accurately.
18 Dec 13
Originally posted by googlefudgeTrue or false?
You have got it backwards. [hidden] [apart from the fact that they have been thoroughly disproved] [/hidden]
The scriptures stand unproven, until they are proven true or false.
1. Love your neighbor as yourself.
2. Those who seek to be great among you must first learn to serve.
3. Love those who hate you and who despitefully use you.
4. Love covers a multitude of sins.
5. Love is at the heart of the law, and if you walk in it, you will abide by the law by default.
6. Love is the greatest of all commandments.
7. The greatest love is to lay ones life down for ones friends.
8. For all will pass away, but in the end only love remains. Faith will pass away, prophesy will pass away, but love will remain eternal. We but see through a dark glass unclearly, but one day we will behold the source of love which is God.
9. God is love. Love cannot be seen, it cannot be measured. By itself love does not exist but it is the single most important aspect to our existence. It is the link between the material and immaterial.
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18 Dec 13
Originally posted by whodeyWell first off, for the bible to be completely factual it must be completely factual.
True or false?
1. Love your neighbor as yourself.
2. Those who seek to be great among you must first learn to serve.
3. Love those who hate you and who despitefully use you.
4. Love covers a multitude of sins.
5. Love is at the heart of the law, and if you walk in it, you will abide by the law by default.
6. Love is the greatest of all ...[text shortened]... gle most important aspect to our existence. It is the link between the material and immaterial.
If ANY of it is not factual [true] then it is not entirely factual.
Does god exist? No. Thus the bible is wrong. ect...
Second.
For many of those a "true or False" answer doesn't even make sense..
I mean lets start with number 1 "Love your neighbor as yourself." ... that isn't even a
question, or statement of fact. I would have no idea what saying true or false to 1
would actually mean.
Try again.
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18 Dec 13
Originally posted by sonshiptake the criteria you use to prove santa doesnt exist and then apply it to god. works just fine.Does god exist? No. Thus the bible is wrong. ect...
Could your next post put forth your undeniable [b]proof of the non-existence of God ?[/b]
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18 Dec 13
Originally posted by sonshipProbably not... Well definitely not as this is my next post and it's not going to containDoes god exist? No. Thus the bible is wrong. ect...
Could your next post put forth your undeniable [b]proof of the non-existence of God ?[/b]
undeniable proof of gods non-existence... But I am pretty definite that I couldn't put
undeniable proof in a forum post if I wanted to. The issue is more complicated than that.
And for reference, When I ask for proof, I would be looking for links to the peer reviewed
scientific journal it appears in, with a brief explanation of what I would be looking at.
The reason I can't just say "here is the proof that god doesn't exist" is because this is
not a question of mathematics.
Now there are undoubtedly god ideas that are just logically impossible and/or incoherent.
Which could be ruled out, but the theist in those cases always just moves the goal posts.
No the reasons I say god/gods don't exist are because science taken as a whole, has built
an accurate and detailed understanding of how the universe works (with plenty of blanks yet
to fill, and details left to discover). And this understanding of how the universe works makes
god or gods so incredibly astronomically unlikely that comparatively speaking winning the lottery
looks like winning a coin toss.
For example; the science that tells us about how the brain works, while incomplete, shows
that our minds are a product of the physical workings of our brains and that there is no magical
life force or spirit making 'living' matter any different from non-living matter outside of how it's
organised.
Physics has pinned down all the fundamental particles and forces at play at the energy levels
life exists at... and well beyond that. The incredibly powerful LHC is struggling to reach energy
levels that our theories don't work at. For every second of operation it creates trillions of high
energy particle reactions and of those the overwhelming majority are immediately dumped by the
computers real-time analysis because nothing happened that is not perfectly predicted by current
theories... and of the tiny percentage that is left over the vast majority is random noise, caused
by the random decay of an atom in the apparatus, or a passing neutrino or cosmic ray passing
through... And that is at energy levels vastly higher than those of the everyday world we inhabit.
There is no need of a god to explain anything, and no evidence at all that any exist.
Complexity comes with an a priori probability penalty.
This is the root basis of Occam's razor.
The more complex an explanation the less probable it is 'A priori'.
This prior improbability of complexity can be overcome with enough evidence.
Gods are pretty much the most complex things imaginable. Creator gods in particular.
And there is absolutely no evidence that they exist.
Thus I can say with confidence that they do not exist.
18 Dec 13
Originally posted by googlefudgeMy point here is that there are truths within the Bible. Some historical, some spiritual but mostly spiritual.
Well first off, for the bible to be completely factual it must be completely factual.
If ANY of it is not factual [true] then it is not entirely factual.
Does god exist? No. Thus the bible is wrong. ect...
Second.
For many of those a "true or False" answer doesn't even make sense..
I mean lets start with number 1 "Love your neighbor as yoursel ...[text shortened]... fact. I would have no idea what saying true or false to 1
would actually mean.
Try again.
Just ignoring the text does not diminish the truths that lie within the text and until people like you are able to comprehend some of the truths you have no way of relating to those who value those truths and who have adopted those truths in their lives.
18 Dec 13
Originally posted by googlefudgeYour perception of reality is inverted. The idea that the existence of God needs proving is a misconstruct of your mind. The fact is you have generated in your own mind the idea that God doesn't exist, telling yourself that the universe and all living things were not created based on fallacious reasoning and spurious scientific methods.
You have got it backwards. [hidden] [apart from the fact that they have been thoroughly disproved] [/hidden]
The scriptures stand unproven, until they are proven true or false.
An unfettered mind, free of the blinding effect of delusional and irrational conceptualizations fomented in/by/from the minds of individuals who themselves are blind, can see the obvious handiwork of God in all creation.
The scriptures in and of themselves are evidence enough. They have proven themselves to many. They will be your proof as well if you ever get over yourself long enough to see past yourself to the one that made you.
If you had any idea how much God loves you...
18 Dec 13
Originally posted by josephwAnd you know all this how?
Your perception of reality is inverted. The idea that the existence of God needs proving is a misconstruct of your mind. The fact is you have generated in your own mind the idea that God doesn't exist, telling yourself that the universe and all living things were not created based on fallacious reasoning and spurious scientific methods.
An unfettered mind ...[text shortened]... self to the one that made you.
[hidden]If you had any idea how much God loves you...[/hidden]