Science and Religion

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
are you trying to tell the forum, that Nazi ideology was not profoundly influenced by and adopted as a direct result of Darwinian evolutionary theory, applied in a social/political sense, for if you are, you are seriously either ill informed or delusional!

let us remind ourselves of the original subtitle of Darwins book,

The Preservation of Fa ...[text shortened]... oured Races in the Struggle for Life

and of Mr.Hitlers infamous book, Mein Kampf, my struggle

…are you trying to tell the forum, that Nazi ideology was not profoundly influenced by and adopted as a DIRECT RESULT of Darwinian evolutionary theory,
….(my emphasis)

Here we go yet again -a theists that has got desperate enough to compare the evolutionist with the nazis:
You cannot blame Darwinian evolutionary theory for the appearance of the nazis:

For a start, Darwin himself was certainly no nazi! -and he was a theist (at least at first -not sure about later though).

Secondly, the nazis massively warped and distorted the interpretation of the theory in order to justify there hateful racist ideology thus they totally misrepresented what the theorem is all about. The scientific theory neither says nor implies anything about how we should behave and anyone who thinks it does (such as the nazis) is logically wrong and haven’t understood it.

Thirdly, if the theory had never been made, the nazis could have just as easily come into existence with the only difference being they would have come up with some other totally idiotic and illogical excuse to murder millions out of infantile hatred.

…let us remind ourselves of the original subtitle of Darwin’s book,

The Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life
..…

That wasn’t advocating nazism in any way and you know it!
“Favoured Races” was OBVIOUSLY NOT referring to races “Favoured” by people -it was OBVIOUSLY referring to races “Favoured” by NATURAL SELECTION. -please STOP pretending that the theorem advocates nazism, it CLEARLY does not. Was Darwin a supporter of the nazis? -yes or no?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
do your historical research and don't make me list quotations from Nazi ideology and Darwin himself, for it may be too harrowing even for a confirmed atheist like yourself! for to be sure this ideology and its application have resulted in more slavery, misery, poverty, killing, murder, ignorance and butchery than the meanest religion!

…do your historical research and don't make me list quotations from Nazi ideology and Darwin himself,….(my emphasis)

Was Darwin a nazi? -answer NO.
Is there any nazi propaganda in what he wrote -answer NO -all his words where simply borrowed and twisted by the nazis and you know it.
You are talking total claptrap.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
[b] …do your historical research and don't make me list quotations from Nazi ideology and Darwin himself,….(my emphasis)

Was Darwin a nazi? -answer NO.
Is there any nazi propaganda in what he wrote -answer NO -all his words where simply borrowed and twisted by the nazis and you know it.
You are talking total claptrap.[/b]

was Darwin a Nazi - yes!
is there any Nazi propaganda in what he wrote - yes hundreds!
was it simply borrowed and twisted by the Nazis - no they simply applied his theory, thats all it was, applied biology as fomented by Darwin
am i talking claptrap, no for the references are readily available!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
was Darwin a Nazi - yes!
is there any Nazi propaganda in what he wrote - yes hundreds!
was it simply borrowed and twisted by the Nazis - no they simply applied his theory, thats all it was, applied biology as fomented by Darwin
am i talking claptrap, no for the references are readily available!

….was Darwin a Nazi - yes! ..…

Now you are being totally delusional.
Is every scientist/person that has a theory that just happens to be inconsistent with your religious beliefs a nazi?

Can you give me any historical evidence that Darwin was a Nazi?

…was it simply borrowed and twisted by the Nazis - no they simply applied his theory,...…

Does the theory of evolution say anything about how we human beings should behave towards each other? -answer -NO.
Therefore, there is no way to “applied” his theory to our conduct with each other.
The theory of evolution is NOT a political theory NOR a “moral” theory -do you deny this fact?

…is there any Nazi propaganda in what he wrote - yes hundreds! ….

Please give an example of an actual quote and in its proper context and then expain how it is Nazi propaganda.

…am i talking claptrap, no for the references are readily available!..…

Try looking up “the origin of species” and do a search in it for all that “nazi propaganda”.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
….was Darwin a Nazi - yes! ..…

Now you are being totally delusional.
Is every scientist/person that has a theory that just happens to be inconsistent with your religious beliefs a nazi?

Can you give me any historical evidence that Darwin was a Nazi?

…was it simply borrowed and twisted by the Nazis - no they simply applied his theo

Try looking up “the origin of species” and do a search in it for all that “nazi propaganda”.

lol, i have a copy in my library, i will see what i can do!

ah here we are

Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.
The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil. ... We must therefore bear the undoubtedly bad effects of the weak surviving and propagating their kind; but there appears to be at least one check in steady action, namely that the weaker and inferior members of society do not marry so freely as the sound; and this check might be indefinitely increased by the weak in body or mind refraining from marriage, though this is more to be hoped for than expected.

you will notice how he identifies weak members of society as being a degenerative force on society, echoed in the Nazi euthanasia programs which killed thousands of innocents, of how he tries to suppress the natural exercise of conscience, seeing emotions such as sympathy as being inherently weak, infact he terms it a deterioration of the nobility of character, as did the Nazis with their ideology and also that programs such as preventing these weaker elements from marrying and thus propagating their genetic makeup is beneficial for checking this inferiority - what must we conclude other than he was a Nazi in ideology and all that was lacking was a Schutzstaffel uniform and the correct environment with which to propagate his ethos!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
lol, i have a copy in my library, i will see what i can do!

ah here we are

Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to t ...[text shortened]... cking was a Schutzstaffel uniform and the correct environment with which to propagate his ethos!

….but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.
..…

Therefore, he is clearly NOT suggesting that we should stop the “worse” humans from breading.

…but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil
..…

So he is saying that to neglect the needs of the weak is an act of evil -that would inadvertently make him an anti-nazi.

…We MUST therefore bear the undoubtedly bad effects of the weak surviving and propagating their kind;
…. (my emphasis)

-the word “MUST” in the above confirms his inadvertent anti-nazi stance.


So EVERYTHING he has said here clearly confirms that he is certainly no nazi.

…you will notice how he identifies weak members of society as being a degenerative force on society
..…

But he suggests they should be helped rather than harmed and, also, he makes no suggestion that they should be prevented to bead -so, sorry, the fact he is no nazi still stands.

….of how he tries to suppress the natural exercise of conscience..…

No he doesn’t!
where does he imply that?

…seeing emotions such as sympathy as being inherently weak,
..…

But he clearly suggests that the suppression of sympathy is an act of evil -that is clearly ANT-nazi.

I have never seen such an obviously ridiculous twisted and malicious stated misrepresentation of what somebody has said -exactly the same maliciously stated misrepresentation of his writings as the nazis but with the only difference being your motive -which is your hateful intolerance of anything that contradicts your religious beliefs.
I fear that, just like the nazis, you may be beyond saving from your own infantile hatred and intolerance.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
[b] the theory of evolution is the closest thing to the truth and dismissing it without a more logic alternate theory is wrong, but that doesn't mean it is a certainty.


But is just about as certain as it can be just like it is just about as certain as it can be that the Earth is round.

…if you claim evolution theory as it is is a cert ...[text shortened]... not even a hint of credible doubt in my mind -does that make me some kind of crazed “fanatic”?

the earth being round is a fact, not a theory.

the evolution theory is a theory.(it says so right in the name)
big bang theory is a theory. they are quite different and much more complex than the scientific fact "water is H2O"

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
are you trying to tell the forum, that Nazi ideology was not profoundly influenced by and adopted as a direct result of Darwinian evolutionary theory, applied in a social/political sense, for if you are, you are seriously either ill informed or delusional!

let us remind ourselves of the original subtitle of Darwins book,

The Preservation of Fa ...[text shortened]... oured Races in the Struggle for Life

and of Mr.Hitlers infamous book, Mein Kampf, my struggle

exactly. nazi was not influenced by darwinism, nazi used darwinism to justify their stupidity. just like they used nietzsche and others.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
lol, i have a copy in my library, i will see what i can do!

ah here we are

Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to t ...[text shortened]... cking was a Schutzstaffel uniform and the correct environment with which to propagate his ethos!

what hamilton said is similar to what i had in mind so i will just copy his respond here, explanations omitted since you do obviously have no use for them.

I have never seen such an obviously ridiculous twisted and malicious stated misrepresentation of what somebody has said -exactly the same maliciously stated misrepresentation of his writings as the nazis but with the only difference being your motive -which is your hateful intolerance of anything that contradicts your religious beliefs.
I fear that, just like the nazis, you may be beyond saving from your own infantile hatred and intolerance.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
the earth being round is a fact, not a theory.

the evolution theory is a theory.(it says so right in the name)
big bang theory is a theory. they are quite different and much more complex than the scientific fact "water is H2O"

….the earth being round is a fact, not a theory. ..…

It is BOTH a theory AND a fact.
A “fact” is just a proven theory.

…the evolution theory is a theory. (it says so right in the name) ..…

Yes -and, like the theory that the Earth is round, for all practical purposes, it is a PROVEN theory -which means it is a FACT.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
[b]….but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.
..…

Therefore, he is clearly NOT suggesting that we should stop the “worse” humans from breading.

…but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhel t, just like the nazis, you may be beyond saving from your own infantile hatred and intolerance.

lol, hehe, haha, man you need to loosen up a bit, ok, hes not a Nazi, but he sure comes close!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
lol, hehe, haha, man you need to loosen up a bit, ok, hes not a Nazi, but he sure comes close!

another pearl of wisdom. he just proved that he is not a nazi, and quite the contrary, is anti-nazi, and that he considers nazi methods to be evil and to use them would mean for us the loss of the human condition.

and you come up with "he comes close".

are you and idiot? all this time we have debated with you on the premise that you are not and you can be reasoned with. but it seems that you really are retarded.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
another pearl of wisdom. he just proved that he is not a nazi, and quite the contrary, is anti-nazi, and that he considers nazi methods to be evil and to use them would mean for us the loss of the human condition.

and you come up with "he comes close".

are you and idiot? all this time we have debated with you on the premise that you are not and you can be reasoned with. but it seems that you really are retarded.

haha, what a muppet, you certainly do not understand the character of the Scots my friend, for we have a deep rooted egalitarian sensibility, which to a dupe like you means that no matter how exalted in your own world you think you are, people can make fun of you, frequently do, and we never take it personally, so get over it!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
haha, what a muppet, you certainly do not understand the character of the Scots my friend, for we have a deep rooted egalitarian sensibility, which to a dupe like you means that no matter how exalted in your own world you think you are, people can make fun of you, frequently do, and we never take it personally, so get over it!

so basically you are saying that the scots will insult anyone using a false statement. that basically they will call einstein stupid just because they have a deep rooted sensibility. i don't believe the scots are moronic fools but you just called every scot a moronic fool.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
so basically you are saying that the scots will insult anyone using a false statement. that basically they will call einstein stupid just because they have a deep rooted sensibility. i don't believe the scots are moronic fools but you just called every scot a moronic fool.

i see you have still not got over it, oh well, the more you rile, the more fun will be made!