Originally posted by sonshipSo you claim that if I win, you merely say that it is an argument ad populum, yet you still think we should go ahead? Why? What would it achieve if the winner has no valid argument?
And that would lead to an argument ad populum if it did.
So, be my guest. Put your interesting people up and I put up mine.
No problem.
And if my winning is an argument ad populum, doesn't that make your original post on the subject an argument ad populum too?
08 Nov 14
Originally posted by Proper KnobI am aware of theistic evolution. I believe that is contrary to the teachings of creation in the Holy Bible.
We've had this conversation numerous times. Does the term 'theistic evolution' ring any bells Ron?
Mainline Protestants, Anglicans, United Methodists, Church of the Nazarene, the Eastern Orthodox Church are Christian denominations who accept the premise that all life on this planet evolved from a common ancestor. Creationist Christians are actually in the minority.
You mentioned United Methodists in your list. I know something about United Methodists because my wife is a member of the UMC and I have attended services with her before. My experience is that the majority of the members do not agree with the oficial statements on evolution adopted by a small committee in 2008.
The United Methodist Church’s official position, found in the Book of Discipline, is that “science’s descriptions of cosmological, geological and biological evolution are not in conflict with theology.”
General Conference 2008 approved that language, as well as a resolution opposing using “faith based theories such as creationism or intelligent design” in public school science curriculums.
The Rev. Dale Shunk, pastor of First United Methodist Church in Somerset, Pa., introduced petitions at General Conference 2012 to remove the language about evolution from the Book of Discipline and to remove from the Book of Resolutions the call for public schools not to teach creationism or intelligent design in science courses.
Both petitions failed in committee. Another proposal, put forward by Cathy Preston of Erie, Pa., would have changed the Book of Discipline language from “We find that science’s descriptions of cosmological, geological, and biological evolution are not in conflict with theology” to “We find that science’s descriptions of cosmology, geology and biology are not in conflict with theology.” That petition passed in committee by a vote of 40 in favor and 29 against, but did not get a plenary vote.
Of his own views, Shunk said, “I would lean toward creationism because I believe in the authority of the word of God … Evolution assumes and expects only natural explanations of the processes on Earth. It excludes any supernatural explanations.”
Shunk points to Australian physicist John Hartnett and other Christian scientists who hold creationist, “young universe” views. To Shunk, the United Methodist Church errs by what he sees as its bias for evolution over other theories.
“We should open up all the doors,” he said.
http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/science-and-faith-9th-evolution-weekend-ahead
08 Nov 14
Originally posted by RJHindsPeople like you are a blight on religion. Your so-called efforts do nothing but split your religion into fighting factions. Is that what you feel is the most spiritual way to get to your heaven?
I am aware of theistic evolution. I believe that is contrary to the teachings of creation in the Holy Bible.
You mentioned United Methodists in your list. I know something about United Methodists because my wife is a member of the UMC and I have attended services with her before. My experience is that the majority of the members do not agree with the of ...[text shortened]... said.[/quote]
http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/science-and-faith-9th-evolution-weekend-ahead
08 Nov 14
Originally posted by josephwDidn't I post something like this before?
http://www.reviewevolution.com/press/pressRelease_100Scientists.php
"The numbers of scientists who question Darwinism is a minority, but it is growing fast," said Stephen Meyer, a Cambridge-educated philosopher of science who directs the Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture at Discovery Institute. "This is happening in the face of fierce attempts ...[text shortened]... Tumlin: Assoc. Prof. of Medicine: Emory U. Charles Thaxton: PhD Physical Chemistry-Iowa State U.
08 Nov 14
Originally posted by sonhouseI haven't made any effort to split Christianity. My efforts should unit the believers who wish to stand up for the truth of scripture.
People like you are a blight on religion. Your so-called efforts do nothing but split your religion into fighting factions. Is that what you feel is the most spiritual way to get to your heaven?
08 Nov 14
Originally posted by SuzianneNo Suzianne, God spoke the universe into creation. God spoke the "natural physical laws" into creation. God used no instrument other than His Word and power to create from nothing all you see.
Let's be clear, here.
The universe WAS created.
But God chose the natural physical laws of this dimension to do it, i.e. the BB, modern cosmology and Evolution.
09 Nov 14
Originally posted by RJHindsThe majority of members? There are 12 million of them!!! How can you have experience of 12 million people?
I am aware of theistic evolution. I believe that is contrary to the teachings of creation in the Holy Bible.
You mentioned United Methodists in your list. I know something about United Methodists because my wife is a member of the UMC and I have attended services with her before. My experience is that the majority of the members do not agree with the of ...[text shortened]... said.[/quote]
http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/science-and-faith-9th-evolution-weekend-ahead
09 Nov 14
Originally posted by Proper KnobI am referring to the majority of the members with which I had experience. Of course, I have not had experience with all the UMC members everywhere. But neither could that small group of people in that committee in 2008. The majority of a committee can not change the beliefs of the majority of the members just by approving a new statement on their own.
The majority of members? There are 12 million of them!!! How can you have experience of 12 million people?
09 Nov 14
Originally posted by RJHindsCommittees tend to be representative of their organisation.
I am referring to the majority of the members with which I had experience. Of course, I have not had experience with all the UMC members everywhere. But neither could that small group of people in that committee in 2008. The majority of a committee can not change the beliefs of the majority of the members just by approving a new statement on their own.
Otherwise the members leave.
Do you belong to any group or organisation?
(Assuming one would have you.)
09 Nov 14
Originally posted by wolfgang59Members often attempt to petition for changes to return to their old beliefs before leaving, which is what is happening in the UMC.
Committees tend to be representative of their organisation.
Otherwise the members leave.
Do you belong to any group or organisation?
(Assuming one would have you.)
I am a member of Southern Baptist, but inactive at present.
09 Nov 14
Originally posted by RJHindsBe that as it may, you still haven't come close to substantiating your claim that the majority of the people in the denominations I listed believe in creation by God.
I am referring to the majority of the members with which I had experience. Of course, I have not had experience with all the UMC members everywhere. But neither could that small group of people in that committee in 2008. The majority of a committee can not change the beliefs of the majority of the members just by approving a new statement on their own.
09 Nov 14
Originally posted by josephwand of that wall of scientists, which one was quoted out of context?
http://www.reviewevolution.com/press/pressRelease_100Scientists.php
"The numbers of scientists who question Darwinism is a minority, but it is growing fast," said Stephen Meyer, a Cambridge-educated philosopher of science who directs the Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture at Discovery Institute. "This is happening in the face of fierce attempts ...[text shortened]... Tumlin: Assoc. Prof. of Medicine: Emory U. Charles Thaxton: PhD Physical Chemistry-Iowa State U.
there is a reason we don't talk about the theory of Darwin. we have made progress, we know things Darwin couldn't possibly have.
so if you go to an evolutionist and ask him if all darwin said is true, obviously he will say no and proceed to tell you where we improved.
i don't suppose you listened though.
09 Nov 14
Originally posted by josephwI strongly suspect there is more money in discussing various creation myths than there is in researching evolutionary biology.
Can you imagine the financial hit the scientific community would take if they didn't keep the party line?
Not much money in the belief that the universe was created. Evolution is a very lucrative hoax.