Originally posted by pawnhandlerAnd no one to argue with, since only those who figured out “The Truth” in this life will be there. . .
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I’m sure going to miss that part. Sitting around in heaven with only my Buddhist/Taoist friends, and no Christians or Muslims or Jews to argue with; I might get bored. Well, No.1 Marauder will be there though (if he doesn’t backslide from his non-dualism), so maybe we can work up something. I’ll mention the Cathars...
Originally posted by pawnhandlerDear Christian,
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You really have nothing to worry about. I carefully designed heaven so that it is directly above hell. Not only do you get to look down on all those atheists, but you can hear them scream too. Besides, as heaven is a totally sin-free place and even the slightest desire to do wrong is a sin, I cleverly remove all such cravings and desires. Hence the "I shall not want" I wrote down for you in the Good Book.
God
Revelation 20 (American Standard Version)
5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire.
15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Originally posted by KellyJayThats all very confusing.
Revelation 20 (American Standard Version)
5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand year ...[text shortened]...
15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished.
I cant work that out. Did the dead live or not during the thousand years?
13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
So the dead are in three places: the sea, death and Hades?
14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire.
Why wasn't the sea cast in too? Would it put the fire out?
and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.
...
15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
So only those who get to heaven actually get judged? What is the judgment about? Are there punishments for particular works? Where does one serve his punishment?
Originally posted by twhiteheadgood god thanks,
Dear Christian,
You really have nothing to worry about. I carefully designed heaven so that it is directly above hell. Not only do you get to look down on all those atheists, but you can hear them scream too. Besides, as heaven is a totally sin-free place and even the slightest desire to do wrong is a sin, I cleverly remove all such cravings and desires. Hence the "I shall not want" I wrote down for you in the Good Book.
God
Originally posted by twhiteheadRead it in context if you want a better view of it.
Thats all very confusing.
[b]5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished.
I cant work that out. Did the dead live or not during the thousand years?
13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. ...[text shortened]... udgment about? Are there punishments for particular works? Where does one serve his punishment?
Kelly
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I cant work that out. Did the dead live or not during the thousand years?
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They stay dead in the graves and in Hades until the end of the millennial kingdom. After the thousand years the rest of the dead also were brought up from the grave raised for Judgment.
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13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
So the dead are in three places: the sea, death and Hades?
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The dead in the sea does not refer to dead human beings. The dead human beings are all in Hades.
The dead in the sea are probably the dead pre-Adamic beings which lived on the earth before Adam. They are the demons of today.
They were not human. I don't know what they were. They were not angels. They are the dead whose disembodied spirits are the demonic spirits of today.
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14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire.
Why wasn't the sea cast in too? Would it put the fire out?
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It says that the sea is no more.
Death and Hades are associated with the dead human beings. There is no longer any need for them, so they are cast into the lake of fire.
The receptacle for dead pre-Adamic beings,the sea, is also no longer needed. So it says that the sea is no more.
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and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.
...
15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
So only those who get to heaven actually get judged? What is the judgment about? Are there punishments for particular works? Where does one serve his punishment?
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It doesn't mention heaven.
It mentions a new heaven and a new earth.
The condemned are to perish eternally because they are not redeemed by the Lamb. They are judged because of their works. But they perish because of their unbelief.
The saved are not saved because of their works. They are saved because of their belief in the Redemption of the Lamb Christ.
To be judged according to what is in the books probably means to have judgement pronounced upon one's works. To have one's works examined, measured, exposed, pronounced as to the true nature of what they were.
Those who perish eternally do so because of unbelief. Those who are saved are so because of belief.
Anyway, we know enough to respond with a request to be saved by the saving Redeemer Christ. And He is willing to save.
Not being 100,000% certain about all theological the nuances of the passage is no excuse for not simply asking Christ to place one's name into the book of life for eternal salvation.
Originally posted by FeastboyI may also. Maybe. It is less expensive.
I'm gonna get cremated.
However, there is no way to avoid being raised from the dead and made to stand before Christ at the end of the ages.
If anyone thinks that cremation will help him to avoid resurrection and the last judgment, he will be bitterly disappointed.
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Or not. Possibly.
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The way I see it, if Jesus had wanted us to be left uncertain about it, He could have left it uncertain. He didn't seem to do that.
There are other things though, which God has left not completely certain to us.
Originally posted by jaywillWell, yeah, if you believe Jesus.
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Or not. Possibly.
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The way I see it, if Jesus had wanted us to be left uncertain about it, He could have left it uncertain. He didn't seem to do that.
There are other things though, which God has left not completely certain to us.[/b]
But if you don't believe Jesus and Jesus is the Truth, it won't make a hill of beans that you didn't believe.
So it behooves us to consider well before we decide, don't you think?
I think it wouldn't at all hurt to have a good long open and honest talk to God / Christ about it.
Originally posted by jaywillWell yeah, I agree, If I didn't believe jesus and he was the truth, it wouldn't matter.
But if you don't believe Jesus and Jesus is the Truth, it won't make a hill of beans that you didn't believe.
So it behooves us to consider well before we decide, don't you think?
I think it wouldn't at all hurt to have a good long open and honest talk to God / Christ about it.
I'd be raised up and judged and I'd say sorry and that for not believing and stuff. I'm sure god would be forgiving. I mean, I've lived a decent life and that so far. Theres no real reason to punish me except for me saying I don't believe in him and that. But when he appeared I could hardly carry on denying it could I?