02 Oct 05
Originally posted by druidraviThat's a whole other kettle of fish, deserving, and probably having already, many other threads dedicated to it.
Well take France which banned exhibition of outward relegious symbols in school etc . This ban also effects the Sikh people who by their relegion are required to wear a turban compulsorily . As an example take the case ofle of the Indian prime minister Manmohan Singh who wears a turban.
This does'nt effect christian people as there is nothing which is cumpulsory for them to wear.
Fact is the French law banned all religious garb, skullcaps, burkas, turbans, and massive crucifixes. So who is being favoured.
The French, God love them (no pun intended) have a long history of secularism, and a separation of Church and State.
They are a secular state. If, therefore, you wish to avail of free state education, then play by the state's rules. If not, then you are free to pay to send your child to a religious school. That's straight-forward.
But it's also a good example for my case. The liberal, secular PC types in the media portrayed this as racism on the French government's part. How can that be so?
02 Oct 05
Originally posted by kirksey957Just pointing out that that's a rather large, and, as far as I can tell, unfounded generalisation!
Are you saying that your're experience is that Christians are not obnoxious or that Jews and Muslims are just as obnoxious?
Christian + Moslem + Jew = Quite a few people.
02 Oct 05
1 edit
Next point:
I have a good friend- he's a stand-up comedian. He's Irish, like me. But he's a liberal. He's anti-organised religion, and a big atheist. He's very P.C., though he's intelligent, so he sort of doesn't want to be seen as such.
So his act consisted of a good hour on religion. Lots of really offensive stuff regarding the Christian faith.
So I asked him: why not have a bash at Judaism? Why not have a crack at Mohammedanism?
He quivered a bit, knowing the answer. He turned pale, and said, 'oh, well, you couldn't'.
I haven't heard his act since, but he assures me that it now contains a good ten minutes on a fellow who is too scared to criticise these religions.
But what conclusions would you all draw?
EDIT:
I have other points to make on this discussion, but I'll leave it sit for a while. Any contributions are much appreciated (but serious ones, no slagging match- a proper discussion if you please)!
Cheers, sjeg
02 Oct 05
Originally posted by Bosse de NageHoward Stern used to send his interviewers out to the Hollywood runways and while reporters were always asking all these fawning questions, his would ask "Do you think there are too many Jews in Hollywood?"
"The media is controlled by the J-e-e-e-ws"
Let's suppose I showed up at a George Bush "town meeting" and asked if he felt there were too many born-again Christians in the Republican party. The point of the question is really to make a statement. It is an uncomfortable question because we already know the answer. The same with Jews in Hollywood.
02 Oct 05
Originally posted by aardvarkhomeIn the Netherlands the general athmosphere is one of trying to prevent Muslims to form their own schools, create their own broadcasting systems and political parties. This right is garantueed by the Dutch constitution, but they, the liberals from the left and the right, are trying to find ways to circumvent it.
Yes, special treatment...in the same way that Hitler's thugs dispensed special treatment. Certainly in the UK and France the BNP and FN dispense harassment, and violence, the broader society dispenses prejudice. What meagre protection minorities receive from the state they certainly do not comprise a privilaged and over protected group.
Is it really different in Nederland?
Because these liberals do not want to "discriminate" against a certain religion, they decided to discriminate ALL religions and they decided to be advocates of abolishing ALL religiously based education and broadcasting organisations. Of course, you can find the most outspoken advocates of such intolerant ideas on the right and the far right. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is one of them. She is a member of the liberal VVD, a former Muslim and a converted Liberal.
02 Oct 05
Originally posted by Moldy CrowOriginally posted by Moldy Crow
So what is it I'm supposed to wake up to ? And once I wake up , what are you implying I do next ? Simply because you think this is a something of a village , and you are my "neighbor" ; I need to listen to your drivel ? I am to quit being offended by your dogmatic chauvenism ? I'm to put away any and all free thought and watch you poison my family wit ...[text shortened]... ermine your any pedistal you erect to put yourself above another .
Wake up to THIS reality !!!!
If I "preach" secular concepts to your kids , like the virtues of gay marrage , darwinist theories of evolution , and womens rights to choose to have abortions; will you be silent and let me speak my piece?
We will not be silent! We will vote in Bush and get your a$$es kick'd! Ok, more seriously - Christians are probably sounding more obnoxious and loud because all you mentioned above is being shoved down everyone's throats... At schools, universities, tv, radio - hell, even on the illustrious chess forums! Now down to defecation of your character (as per David C's request):
May the hideous and ape-like Darwin ever be your guide. May the spirit of Freud's libido be within thee. May the love of the gentle gays always shine upon you. May your salary dwindle into the tax-coffers of your benedictal secular state. May you be saved from the sanctimonious charity of a religious group when you're senile and mouldy. May the unsettling peace of a mental institution be with you, for the rest of your days. May your cup of insult and acid always overflow... Let your head be annointed with pigeon-turd. And may your futile arguments haunt you to your grave... Amen.
Bring it on...
02 Oct 05
Originally posted by OmnislashOmnislash: "Grow some skin!!! "
Regardless, within his verbose and inflammatory remark he makes a very good point.
People do, always have, and always will spew mindless unsubstantiated completely unintelligent malicious insults about that which others hold dear. Sometimes, it is even intended to offend. Religion is no exception.
Such remarks are made out of intolerance. If you wi ...[text shortened]...
Grow some skin!!!
Quit giving theists like me a bad name!!!
Pax Vobiscum,
Omnislash 🙂
I'll pass your advice to the Jewish people in France and the Muslims in the Netherlands and Germany.
This is an international site and people should become more aware of the situation in other countries. The world is bigger than just the United States.
02 Oct 05
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Originally posted by sjegI recall reading about a study on children, one was alone and in a
An interesting point.
I'm playing a game with my mate Moldy, and I ask him about his message under his handle, which read at the time that his location was:
"pissing on bibles".
I asked Moldy what this was about, and he informed me this was an adverse reaction to some posters whom he considered as categorising him, and posters similar, as anti-reli ...[text shortened]... rs.
(Moldy knows I'm posting this discussion, so he might want to put forward his ideas too)
room playing peacefully with toys lying all around the room. They
introduced another child, and the first one became aggravated and
moved all the toys next to him, exhibiting some issues like
selfishness and anger that wasn't seen until someone else was
brought into the picture. Other children didn’t exhibit this under
the same conditions, but it shows us something if we think about
it.
As people we each react according to how our inner man or spirit
is geared to act. What is in the core of man drives the man they
are what they are, if hateful they will be hateful, if untrustworthy
they will be untrustworthy, if they are prejudice they will be
prejudice, and each of these people will justify themselves in their
minds too. If honorable the same is true, two different men can
find a wallet with money and ID in it, the conditions in their lives
can be the same but their reactions may not be.
To see someone go out of their way just to insult something
another believes to be holy is revealing to say the least. I guess
that is why family members are also a targets of insults by
those wishing to express their hate, or loathing of another for
whatever reason.
Kelly
02 Oct 05
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What is really disturbing is that the paralysing and most unfortunate American dichotomy in political thinking is at work on this site also.
ALL Christians are advocates and supporters of these televison preachers. ALL Christians are anti-evolutionists and pro-creationists. ALL Christians are "You are going to hell" Christians. All Christians are admirers of types such as Pat Robinson. ALL Christians are Bush admirers, Republicans, fundamentalists, Evangelicals ...... etc .... etc ....
Many debaters do not adress the RHP debater in question and do not adress his thoughts, ideas and posts but simply burst out in undifferentiated rants against what they believe are THE Christians and automatically attach this label to everybody who presents himself as a Christian.
02 Oct 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeI don't think this is typical American, rather typical human. And it's not just about Christians, the same thing happens with other groups. ALL evolutionists are atheists. ALL atheists believe there is no god. ALL atheists insult Christians... etc. Black-and-white thinking and generalizing are easier than differentiating.
What is really disturbing is that the paralysing and most unfortunate American dichotomy in thinking is at work on this site also.
ALL Christians are advocates and supporters of these televison preachers. ALL Christians are anti-evolutionists and pro-creationists. ALL Christians are "You are going to hell" Christians. All Christians are admirers of typ ...[text shortened]... Christians and automatically attach this label to everybody who presents himself as a Christian.
