21 Apr 07
Originally posted by kirksey957To me, there is no problem. But I was told that even to have 'sinful' thoughts in our minds is a sin. If you hate someone because he did something to you or for whatever reason, but you do not act on that hate, it is still a sin nonetheless. Hence we can't be free from sin. Again, we are sinful by nature!
Let's say I go to Hooters and I take delight in the generosity and beauty of God's creation in the Hooters' waitresses, would that be a problem?
I just feel that the standard that God is demanding of us is impossible to achieve. It is in that sense that I thought sending his son to SAVE US has been in vain.
21 Apr 07
1 edit
Originally posted by Big Machttp://m-w.com/dictionary/lust
from my world view, which would be that of a xian, we were designed perfectly. sexual desire does not = lust. i desire my wife, but if i sexually desire another woman that would be lust, by my definition of the word.
also, according to my world view, we were created perfect, sinless creatures. having fallen we sin out of necessity. we cannot help but sin ...[text shortened]... exually desire our mate, yes. but, not to lust after that which is not ours. women or otherwise.
1 obsolete a : PLEASURE, DELIGHT b : personal inclination : WISH
2 : usually intense or unbridled sexual desire : LASCIVIOUSNESS
3 a : an intense longing : CRAVING b : ENTHUSIASM, EAGERNESS
Definition #2 refutes your claim that sexual desire isn't lust. In fact, nothing in any of the definitions specifies who is being lusted after.
21 Apr 07
Originally posted by SwissGambitDefinition two does mention that the desire be unbridled, or uncontrolled. But, as with other points, my world view is based on the Bible. It warns against lust after women who are not my wife, as well as things that are not mine, and fleshly pleasure above my desire to be with and serve God.
http://m-w.com/dictionary/lust
1 obsolete a : PLEASURE, DELIGHT b : personal inclination : WISH
2 : usually intense or unbridled sexual desire : LASCIVIOUSNESS
3 a : an intense longing : CRAVING b : ENTHUSIASM, EAGERNESS
Definition #2 refutes your claim that sexual desire isn't lust. In fact, nothing in any of the definitions specifies who is being lusted after.
21 Apr 07
1 edit
Originally posted by Big MacDid you feel lust for your wife before you married her?
Definition two does mention that the desire be unbridled, or uncontrolled. But, as with other points, my world view is based on the Bible. It warns against lust after women who are not my wife, as well as things that are not mine, and fleshly pleasure above my desire to be with and serve God.
21 Apr 07
Originally posted by Big MacWhat an evasive answer.
My actions do not dictate truth.
The truth is that lust is a natural, normal thing. It provides us pleasure, companionship, and a means of propagating our species. Why should we be ashamed of it? Shouldn't we at least think about whether the biblical prohibition actually makes sense before claiming it's 'truth'?
22 Apr 07
Originally posted by SwissGambitGod thoughts are not necessarily in agreement with our own. What makes sense to God may not make sense to us. I don't think we should to pick and choose what we obey or don't obey.
What an evasive answer.
The truth is that lust is a natural, normal thing. It provides us pleasure, companionship, and a means of propagating our species. Why should we be ashamed of it? Shouldn't we at least think about whether the biblical prohibition actually makes sense before claiming it's 'truth'?
I still struggle with ideas about God's creation of us. Were we created perfectly? The only perfect thing in the universe is God. If we were created perfect we would be God? I don't think so...
To me that means we were created less than God and less than perfect. I talked to a friend of my today about this, his response was this God sees his redeemed people as perfect, as we will be in the afterlife. This is the only way that I would ever be perfect.
22 Apr 07
Originally posted by ckoh1965I remember when I was in seminary there was a guy in class talking about how terrible he was because he had a "sinful" dream about a woman. That's taking this way too far. Maybe we are supposed to have feelings of attraction. There are some species that clearly mate for life and it is not an issue for them. Humans are not one of them.
To me, there is no problem. But I was told that even to have 'sinful' thoughts in our minds is a sin. If you hate someone because he did something to you or for whatever reason, but you do not act on that hate, it is still a sin nonetheless. Hence we can't be free from sin. Again, we are sinful by nature!
I just feel that the standard that God is demand ...[text shortened]... e to achieve. It is in that sense that I thought sending his son to SAVE US has been in vain.
22 Apr 07
Originally posted by ckoh1965There is a difference between having sinful thoughts and meditating or obsessiing about them. I heard a preacher say once that you cannot stop birds from flying over your head........however, that does not mean you let them nest on top of your head. Sin starts in the mind so when sinful thoughts come you either cast them down or out of you mind or meditate them and picture yourself carrying out such sinful activity. If you do the later the chances of you carrying out such activity are very high. Its just common sense.
To me, there is no problem. But I was told that even to have 'sinful' thoughts in our minds is a sin. If you hate someone because he did something to you or for whatever reason, but you do not act on that hate, it is still a sin nonetheless. Hence we can't be free from sin. Again, we are sinful by nature!
I just feel that the standard that God is demand ...[text shortened]... e to achieve. It is in that sense that I thought sending his son to SAVE US has been in vain.
22 Apr 07
3 edits
Originally posted by Ruppster1I can accept that, if there is a god, (s)he/it is probably on a much higher intellectual plane that we are. What I can't accept is that he expects us to believe something that does not make sense to us. If a god gave us our minds, shouldn't we actually use them?
God thoughts are not necessarily in agreement with our own. What makes sense to God may not make sense to us. I don't think we should to pick and choose what we obey or don't obey.
I still struggle with ideas about God's creation of us. Were we created perfectly? The only perfect thing in the universe is God. If we were created perfect we would be God? perfect, as we will be in the afterlife. This is the only way that I would ever be perfect.
Haven't you decided that other religions don't make as much sense as Christianity, and therefore rejected them? If so, you have indeed picked and chosen what to obey.
22 Apr 07
Originally posted by SwissGambitWe are supposed to worshipp God with our hearts, our souls, and our minds.If something does not make sense to you, it is up to you to keep studying about it until it does make sense. But I think the are some questions that will not be answered until we are with God.
I can accept that, if there is a god, (s)he/it is probably on a much higher intellectual plane that we are. What I can't accept is that he expects us to believe something that does not make sense to us. If a god gave us our minds, shouldn't we actually use them?
Haven't you decided that other religions don't make as much sense as Christianity, and therefore rejected them? If so, you have indeed picked and chosen what to obey.
22 Apr 07
Originally posted by Ruppster1You start at monotheistic Christianity without any explanation. Why? Don't other beliefs deserve study?
We are supposed to worshipp God with our hearts, our souls, and our minds.If something does not make sense to you, it is up to you to keep studying about it until it does make sense. But I think the are some questions that will not be answered until we are with God.
You've got it backwards. It is up to us to withhold belief until we understand that something is true in the first place.
22 Apr 07
Originally posted by SwissGambitI tell you want I know which is Christianity. If you think the truth lies elsewhere then look there.
You start at monotheistic Christianity without any explanation. Why? Don't other beliefs deserve study?
You've got it backwards. It is up to us to withhold belief until we understand that something is true in the first place.
But it is your responsiblity to search until you find something to believe. I have studied some other faiths and philosophies, but I was not satisfied with them. For a long time I did not believe in God. The more I learned in science the more apparent it became to me that there must be a
Creator.It is through study and questioning that I became Christian.
22 Apr 07
Originally posted by Ruppster1We are supposed to worship God with our hearts, our souls, and our minds.
We are supposed to worshipp God with our hearts, our souls, and our minds.If something does not make sense to you, it is up to you to keep studying about it until it does make sense. But I think the are some questions that will not be answered until we are with God.
Did you mean “love”?