Spirituality and Existentialism

Originally posted by whodey
All I am saying is that if there is no Creator, then we wre not created with a purpose. Therefore, any purpose in life that we derive is created ONLY in our mind. We have no future other than nonexistence and a return to purposelessness (if that is a word).

I never said that you have to have faith in order to have meaning in your life. I am simply stati e a purpose outside ourselves even though we may refuse the purpose for which we were created.

All I am saying is that if there is no Creator, then we wre not created with a purpose.

Again: no that is not all you were saying. I wish you were man enough to admit that your earlier commentary featured the design to denigrate the meaning certain others have sculpted out for themselves, merely because they happen to have a worldview that differs from your own. But it seems you are not.

What you have stated above is simply vacuous and says basically nothing. Of course it follows that we were not created (with or without a purpose) from that there was no creator of us. Duh! So if this is really all you are saying, then you are saying nothing of substance.

Therefore, any purpose in life that we derive is created ONLY in our mind.

Well, any purpose that you are going on about is created ONLY in God's mind. Meaning and purpose, these are things that surely depend on the existence of minds, however you slice it. Neither your nor epiphinehas has succeeded in explaining why exactly it is a problem for the atheist that meaning and purpose and such things are the provinces of our own minds. Nor have you given me a single reason to metaphysically privilege whatever would come from God's mind above what comes from the minds of other agents. Somehow, you are under this delusion that if meaning/purpose are sourced from God's mind, they are "real"; but if they are sourced from our own minds, they are not. I see absolutely no reason to buy that. I do not see why the atheist should be bothered with any of your points (except for the way you sneer down on the meaning they have labored out for themselves and imply that it is lacking real substance). Meaning/purpose and such things are surely dependent on the existence of minds; so why should it trouble the atheist that his view attests to this in a way that also secures a genuine connection between his own mind and the meaning that plays out in his own life?

I never said that you have to have faith in order to have meaning in your life.

Right, those not of faith can have meaning in their lives; they just cannot have "real" meaning in their lives like you and your Christian pals. Thanks for sharing....

However, if there is a God, he is the only thing that is real in an ever changing universe.

🙄🙄🙄

Originally posted by whodey
All I am saying is that if there is no Creator, then we wre not created with a purpose. Therefore, any purpose in life that we derive is created ONLY in our mind. We have no future other than nonexistence and a return to purposelessness (if that is a word).

I never said that you have to have faith in order to have meaning in your life. I am simply stati ...[text shortened]... e a purpose outside ourselves even though we may refuse the purpose for which we were created.

I understand you to be examining here, the concept of a creator-god as a response to the problem of purpose. In the construction of this creator-god concept, how do we avoid the issues raised by asking if the creator-god has a purpose? From where would its purpose come? However we respond, why shouldn't we just apply that response to ourselves?

It seems to me that all we are doing is conceptualizing a creator-god who would be an existentialist WRT purpose, in our place.🙂

Originally posted by JS357
I understand you to be examining here, the concept of a creator-god as a response to the problem of purpose. In the construction of this creator-god concept, how do we avoid the issues raised by asking if the creator-god has a purpose? From where would its purpose come? However we respond, why shouldn't we just apply that response to ourselves?

It seems to ...[text shortened]... ng is conceptualizing a creator-god who would be an existentialist WRT purpose, in our place.🙂

There is a reason behind all events. The question becomes, can we understand that reason?

As for the God construct, if He has no purpose for us, i.e., if He has no purpose for our lives., then He might as well be dead to us. At this point we might as well be atheists because he has no inherent interest in us.

Having said that, I find that things I create say a great deal about me. It says something about my intelligence level, it says something about my needs and desires etc. The same can be said for God. I just don't buy the notion that an intelligent life form could create something for which it has no need for nor interest in. If nothing else, what that life form might create would say a good deal about its level of intellligence and what makes it tick.

Originally posted by whodey
There is a reason behind all events. The question becomes, can we understand that reason?

As for the God construct, if He has no purpose for us, i.e., if He has no purpose for our lives., then He might as well be dead to us. At this point we might as well be atheists because he has no inherent interest in us.

Having said that, I find that things I cre ...[text shortened]... orm might create would say a good deal about its level of intellligence and what makes it tick.

"There is a reason behind all events. The question becomes, can we understand that reason?"

--- I like that. Understanding the reason seems like detecting the plot, which is like assuming there is an author who has a plot in mind. This is not to say there isn't one.

"As for the God construct, if He has no purpose for us, i.e., if He has no purpose for our lives., then He might as well be dead to us. At this point we might as well be atheists because he has no inherent interest in us."

--- I consider that an entirely reasonable response to the situation at hand. But it is not as though we have no further use for Him. Our imagination of Him and His wishes for us would be sufficient.

"Having said that, I find that things I create say a great deal about me. It says something about my intelligence level, it says something about my needs and desires etc. The same can be said for God. I just don't buy the notion that an intelligent life form could create something for which it has no need for nor interest in. If nothing else, what that life form might create would say a good deal about its level of intellligence and what makes it tick."

--- And it does say that, about each of us, as each of us creates his/her image of God, to the extent of our limited ability. Maybe we need to believe in God as the one who sanctifies our values.