Suppose...

Originally posted by Darfius
I can read His revelation for myself (the Bible). I know it is His revelation because of the trustworthiness of the eyewitnesses (admissable in court), prophecy, and the testimony of archaeology.

Okay. You've listed three criteria.

I would be interested in hearing how #s 1 and 3 contribute to your
belief that it is revelation.

That is, specifically:

How do you assess that the eyewitnesses are trustworthy?
and
How does the testimony of archeology positively sway your belief in the
revelatory aspects of Scripture?

Nemesio

Originally posted by jaywill
When I read the Bible I see a flow of history in a certain direction. We may complain why are we not at the destination already. And why were we not always at this destination?

These are good questions philosophially. Yet we are at least assured that God's eternal purpose is propelling the universe in that direction. That is a new heaven and a new earth ...[text shortened]... he move of this one divine will and to be brought to that destination for which we all long.

It is clear that the earliest christians thought the kingdom of god would be established during their own lifetime. But it didn't happen. And now some 2,000 years later you're telling us god is still propelling us toward his eternal purpose. Why the big delay? I bet in another 2,000 years, we'll still have some crackpot theologians telling us that the kingdom of god is just around the corner. I can only hope that by then most people will have gotten wise to that old song and dance.

Originally posted by Darfius
The 'question' (since we were discussing why God ALLOWS rape), is whether God can veer from His plan, which, given its assured perfection, He cannot.

Speaking of 'assured perfection'...

"I want you to know, when it comes to believing in god- I really tried. I really really tried. I tried to believe that there is a god who created each one of us in his own image and likeness, loves us very much and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize...something is [FOULED]-UP. Something is WRONG here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is NOT good work. If this is the best god can do, I am NOT impressed. Results like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being. This is the kind of [shtuff] you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently run universe, this guy would have been out on his all-powerful-ass a long time ago." [George Carlin, from "You Are All Diseased".]

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Speaking of 'assured perfection'...

"I want you to know, when it comes to believing in god- I really tried. I really really tried. I tried to believe that there is a god who created each one of us in his own image and likeness, loves us very much and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you l ...[text shortened]... t on his all-powerful-ass a long time ago." [George Carlin, from "You Are All Diseased".]

Good ol' Georgie. Always good for a laugh, ain't he? Sadly, he doesn't realize the joke is on him. Self-assured of his own sense of justice, poor George can't (for the life of him) think to ask where that sense of justice originates, what reality provides the currency.

Although--- as he admits--- he is getting older and therefore incrementally closer to getting a face-to-face with the "office temp with a bad attitude." Funnier than anything Mr. Carlin can come up with in the meantime, is imagining that lingering moment of awkward silence wherein ol' Georgie boy is seen crapping his pants at the anticipated moment of Truth. Good stuff.

Originally posted by rwingett
It is clear that the earliest christians thought the kingdom of god would be established during their own lifetime. But it didn't happen.

It was, and not for the first time, but not in the form they were expecting.

Originally posted by rwingett
It is clear that the earliest christians thought the kingdom of god would be established during their own lifetime. But it didn't happen. And now some 2,000 years later you're telling us god is still propelling us toward his eternal purpose. Why the big delay? I bet in another 2,000 years, we'll still have some crackpot theologians telling us that th ...[text shortened]... r. I can only hope that by then most people will have gotten wise to that old song and dance.

the end is nigh - go-goh!

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Good ol' Georgie. Always good for a laugh, ain't he? Sadly, he doesn't realize the joke is on him. Self-assured of his own sense of justice, poor George can't (for the life of him) think to ask where that sense of justice originates, what reality provides the currency.

Although--- as he admits--- he is getting older and therefore incrementally closer ...[text shortened]... ' Georgie boy is seen crapping his pants at the anticipated moment of Truth. Good stuff.

You really ought to suspend your dogmatic ramblings long enough to at least grasp the hilarity of the "Ice Capades" line.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
You really ought to suspend your dogmatic ramblings long enough to at least grasp the hilarity of the "Ice Capades" line.

I've always appreciated George's stuff, beginning in the 'tater tot' days. His sense of humor is stretched a little thin, however, when his agenda begins to show. Besides, everyone is dogmatic.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Self-assured of his own sense of justice, poor George can't (for the life of him) think to ask where that sense of justice originates, what reality provides the currency.

Funnier than anything Mr. Carlin can come up with in the meantime, is imagining that lingering moment of awkward silence wherein ol' Georgie boy is seen crapping his pants at the anticipated moment of Truth. Good stuff.

Thanks for not disappointing. Good ol' Christian- "I can't wait until you get what you deserve, Infidel Heathen Unbeliever...Burn for All Eternity and Crap Your Pants while I sit in Heaven having tea with Jesus and laugh!" -defense mechanism.

Good stuff.

Originally posted by David C
Thanks for not disappointing. Good ol' Christian- "I can't wait until you get what you deserve, Infidel Heathen Unbeliever...Burn for All Eternity and Crap Your Pants while I sit in Heaven having tea with Jesus and laugh!" -defense mechanism.

Good stuff.

I am almost completely convinced that George is a believer, therefore your motif of giggling in the face of the demise of another's soul is sorely misplaced.

What I did say was how funny now that awkward moment of pants-crapping then strikes me. While lack of mention does not mean lack of reality, the tone that I pick up from the scene describing the Evaluation Seat of Christ does not appear to include levity. I wouldn't want to be the person inappropriately snickering in the crowd, even when that pants-crapping moment comes.