The Agenda

@secondson said
Jesus said,
"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

Revelation 5:3
And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, nei ...[text shortened]... nto the Lord our God:

Nobody goes to heaven?

You must be a Jehovah's Witness, and a reprobate.

Is that all you got? Your first passage from Christ says nothing about going to heaven. The rest is from Revelation and are just visions of future events. The fact remains. Nobody goes to heaven.

The body dies and goes to the grave. The soul goes to a place chosen by God. Nobody knows where. On the day of judgement the dead are risen and judged. Good people enter the Kingdom of God the evil ones are destroyed. The Kingdom of God has two parts. The Kingdom of Christ under the rule of Christ where Saints in Christ [not necessarily Christians] rule with Christ ON THE EARTH. Thereafter the rule of God takes over in the New Jerusalem, for ever. There is no going to heaven in these scenarios

Nobody goes to heaven Thats just another of the false doctrines perpetrated by a Satanic church along with
- immortality of the soul
- faith alone without righteousness gives eternal life
- eternal torment for unbelievers

The Christian church is astray with nonsensical doctrines not preached by Christ.

@secondson said
Jesus said,
"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

Revelation 5:3
And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, nei ...[text shortened]... nto the Lord our God:

Nobody goes to heaven?

You must be a Jehovah's Witness, and a reprobate.

Actually I did not need to say all of that in the previous post. Most of your church doctrines can be destroyed by simple one-liners from Jesus Christ himself.

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3:13 KJV)

That would make your church and their followers reprobates.

@Rajk999

I am saved from eternal punishment, thank God.

Are you Rajk999 ?

Here is how I know, thank God, that I am saved from eternal punishment -

"But God being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, Even when we were dead in offenses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

And raised us up to sit together with Him and seated us together with Him in the heavenlies ...

For by grace you have been SAVED through faith, and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God: Not of works that no one should boast. "
(Eph. 2:4-6,8-9)

In case you don't want me to leave out verses 7 and 10 ??

"That He might display in the ages to come the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus" (v.7)

"For we are His masterpiece, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand in order that we would walk in them." (v.10)

Don't come back with "Most Christians ... , most Christians ..., most Christians ... , all the churches ..., all the churches ..., everybody is terrible, I'm left alone ..."

Just tell me if you are saved from eternal punishment or still in danger of it.

@sonship said
@Rajk999

I am saved from eternal punishment, thank God.

Are you Rajk999 ?

Here is how I know, thank God, that I am saved from eternal punishment -

[quote] [b] "But God being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, Even when we were dead in offenses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

And raised us ...[text shortened]... m left alone ..."

Just tell me if you are saved from eternal punishment or still in danger of it.

I have no interest in discussing your business, neither mine on a chat forum. I discuss issues in the bible. Personalizing these topics makes the discussion petty and trivial, and those who repeatedly bring in their personal information into these discussions show themselves to be petty and trivial people.

As for the topic, the death and resurrection of Christ saved many [or even all] people from the condemnation of the sin brought into the world by Adam. This is what the expression 'saved by grace' means. Gods grace is the death of Christ. However as Paul and other Apostles laboured to explain, this 'saved by grace' IS NOT ETERNAL LIFE. Eternal life comes from continuing on with good works and righteousness and only then after judgment will eternal life be granted. Failure to keep the commandments means eternal damnation.

@rajk999 said
I have no interest in discussing your business, neither mine on a chat forum. I discuss issues in the bible. Personalizing these topics makes the discussion petty and trivial, and those who repeatedly bring in their personal information into these discussions show themselves to be petty and trivial people.

As for the topic, the death and resurrection of Christ saved many ...[text shortened]... ter judgment will eternal life be granted. Failure to keep the commandments means eternal damnation.

So, are you saying that it is possible to be "saved by grace" unto "eternal damnation"?

Sorry, but I don't think that's exactly how it works.

@suzianne said
So, are you saying that it is possible to be "saved by grace" unto "eternal damnation"?

Sorry, but I don't think that's exactly how it works.

You dont read your bible. I explained that before but you will continue to argue like a fool.

Here it is again. Paul in several of the letters to the churches addressed a group of people. Who are these people? These are all saved, born-again, Christian Saints in Christ. These have all been Saved by Grace through faith.

Not all these saved Christians will get eternal life in the Kingdom of God. Eternal life depends on living righteously. Failure to do this means that the very same saved Christian will have no inheritance in the Kingdom of God.

Read it for yourself, and accept what Paul said or do like sonship and twist it.

@rajk999 said
You dont read your bible. I explained that before but you will continue to argue like a fool.

Here it is again. Paul in several of the letters to the churches addressed a group of people. Who are these people? These are all saved, born-again, Christian Saints in Christ. These have all been Saved by Grace through faith.

Not all these saved Christians will get ...[text shortened]... Kingdom of God.

Read it for yourself, and accept what Paul said or do like sonship and twist it.

What is your point, unless your arguing against the doctrine of once saved always saved? This is a meaningless point, of course, only those who choose God can then walk away from Him. Only those abiding in Christ can fall away from Christ. Those that were never in Christ cannot fall away since they were never saved to begin with. Salvation is based only on Jesus Christ, He is our redeemer, our savior, our propitiation and if we die in our sins without Him, we will die in our sins without Him, with Him we can be overcomers.

@kellyjay said
Only those abiding in Christ can fall away from Christ. Those that were never in Christ cannot fall away since they were never saved to begin with.

Oh. So, in other words, even you cannot be sure you are a genuine Christian, right?

If you "fall away from Christ" in a few years from now, for whatever reason, that would mean that you were never a Christian and it would mean that in 2019 your belief that you were "saved" was false, right?

Which means that you cannot know whether or not your claim that you are "saved" now - today - 2019 - is false, right?

This is your own logic applied to you.

@rajk999 said
You dont read your bible. I explained that before but you will continue to argue like a fool.

Here it is again. Paul in several of the letters to the churches addressed a group of people. Who are these people? These are all saved, born-again, Christian Saints in Christ. These have all been Saved by Grace through faith.

Not all these saved Christians will get ...[text shortened]... Kingdom of God.

Read it for yourself, and accept what Paul said or do like sonship and twist it.

So, continuing your thought, they were "saved by grace", unto "eternal damnation".

Again, I don't think that's how it works.

Do I have to read your own words in the post I originally replied to back to you?

@fmf said
Oh. So, in other words, even you cannot be sure you are a genuine Christian, right?

If you "fall away from Christ" in a few years from now, for whatever reason, that would mean that you were never a Christian and it would mean that in 2019 your belief that you were "saved" was false, right?

Which means that you cannot know whether or not your claim that you are "saved" now - today - 2019 - is false, right?

This is your own logic applied to you.

This is why we need the courage to endure to the end and persevere.

If our heart changes, all bets are off.

@suzianne said
So, continuing your thought, they were "saved by grace", unto "eternal damnation".

Again, I don't think that's how it works.

Do I have to read your own words in the post I originally replied to back to you?

If you knew what you were talking about you would explain how it works. Say something of substance, quote some references or shut up.

@suzianne said
This is why we need the courage to endure to the end and persevere.

Do you believe that my loss of Christian faith was caused by a lack of courage?

@sonship said
@Rajk999

I am saved from eternal punishment, thank God.

Are you Rajk999 ?

Here is how I know, thank God, that I am saved from eternal punishment -

[quote] [b] "But God being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, Even when we were dead in offenses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

And raised us ...[text shortened]... m left alone ..."

Just tell me if you are saved from eternal punishment or still in danger of it.

1 Corinthians 9:27
But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

@kellyjay said
1 Corinthians 9:27
But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

That passage is completely at odds with what is preached by sonship, second son and others here. Nobody is immune from eternal damnation if they do not keep themselves disciplined and under control. But for sure sonship has a way to twist it around. He is going to be twisting his way straight to the lake of fire.

@rajk999 said
That passage is completely at odds with what is preached by sonship, second son and others here. Nobody is immune from eternal damnation if they do not keep themselves disciplined and under control. But for sure sonship has a way to twist it around. He is going to be twisting his way straight to the lake of fire.

They are quite capable of defending themselves. The works without Jesus as savior doctrine is bogus, if the righteous just make it, where will the rest end up?