The apostle Paul

Originally posted by blakbuzzrd
Yeah, they would. Happens all the time, in fact.

Two words from our own era: suicide bombers.

There are a lot of reasons for suicide bombers, people are forced
by threats, promises for their families, and so on. I do not accept
that the vast majority of them are free will suicide bombers to
get heaven, if they are more is the pity. That does not mean that
they have had an experience with God either if they are, only that
they are living in the teachings they were given, much like you, they
had nothing real when it came to their experience with God to know
the difference between God and man.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
There are a lot of reasons for suicide bombers, people are forced
by threats, promises for their families, and so on. I do not accept
that the vast majority of them are free will suicide bombers to
get heaven, if they are more is the pity. That does not mean that
they have had an experience with God either if they are, only that
they are living in the ...[text shortened]... al when it came to their experience with God to know
the difference between God and man.
Kelly

Their experiences with god were as real as any experience anyone has. Your wrong to think that the majority are forced, the vast majority do believe that they will get to heaven for their actions. Most of these people are highly educated but their belief in god is so incredibly strong, that they know what they are doing is right and will lead them straight to heaven.

Originally posted by Jake Ellison
Their experiences with god were as real as any experience anyone has. Your wrong to think that the majority are forced, the vast majority do believe that they will get to heaven for their actions. Most of these people are highly educated but their belief in god is so incredibly strong, that they know what they are doing is right and will lead them straight to heaven.

I've no doubt a great many of them are believers in their faith, but
that does not mean all of those killing themselves off are doing it
because they want too, or that they have had experiences with God.

I believe many are being paid off for their families sake, they are
being forced, and there are those that are doing it because they are
true believers too. Education does not limit anyone's ability to believe
in anything and with a higher education the means by which they can
carry out their beliefs grows. I'd also be willing to bet that those with
the education believe themselves to be more of a driving force to
get more uneducated believers into killing themselves off than they
actually doing it themselves, but there would have to be a few of
those too.
Kelly

Originally posted by blakbuzzrd
Yeah, they would. Happens all the time, in fact.

Two words from our own era: suicide bombers.

In all fairness, there is a HUGE difference between someone blowing themselves up and someone giving their lives for simply standing for what they beleive in. First of all, those who stand up for what they believe in are not killing others and secondly they are not comitting suicide, rather, they are simply being targeted for what they believe. As for the 12 disciples, they did not advocate violence nor did they kill themselves. As a matter of fact, the early Christians did not fight back at all, rather, they simply were thrown to the lions, so to speak. In all honesty you should be ashamed of your analogy.

Also consider your typical suicide bomber. Are they not usually the uneducated and/or highly impressionable? From what I see a vast majority are children. Also, the top brass within terrorist organizations that sponser such suicide bombers would NEVER give their lives for what they have others give thier lives for. Theirs is an effort steeped in hypocrisy to say the least. Conversly, the disciples who followed Jesus followed someone willing to give his life for them. They all then did the same. They gave their lives for Christ in order to spread the good news.

As for yourself, is their nothing you would give your life for?

Originally posted by pawnhandler
The passage of 2000 years shows that Paul was wrong -- imminent has much more immediacy to it. Had he been correct in his assumption, it would have happened in his lifetime and it would have made sense for him to tell virgins and single men to remain unmarried, etc. I assume that those who take every word of the Bible literally have remained single and ...[text shortened]... ases and thus women ARE allowed to occupy spiritual leadership. All are equal under the Lord.

The passage of 2000 years shows that Paul was wrong -- imminent has much more immediacy to it.
Two thousand years or two thousand seconds, the imminency of Christ's return stands as originally declared: it is overhanging every moment of time until it occurs.

Had he been correct in his assumption, it would have happened in his lifetime...
Paul was not assuming anything, but rather, he was relaying a dogmatic point of doctrine, as was his assignment. At no point in the writings of Paul does he even once say that the matter of the timing of Christ's return was strictly his opinion. His statements regarding the same are nothing more and nothing less than truth: Christ's return could have happened within two seconds of His departure; it may happen before this sentence is finished; it may happen a million years from today. Whenever it does happen, the imminency refers to the fact that nothing but the Father's plan is holding it back. Christ's return is not dependent upon any action of man.

...it would have made sense for him to tell virgins and single men to remain unmarried, etc.
It made just as much sense then as it does now. Apparently, you aren't married?

Your quote, which includes "neither male nor female" shows that there are no gender biases and thus women ARE allowed to occupy spiritual leadership. All are equal under the Lord.
Indeed, no gender bias exists in Christ. Here, however, Paul is not speaking of offices within the governing body of the church or the qualifications thereof; he is referring to the spiritual life in general.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]The passage of 2000 years shows that Paul was wrong -- imminent has much more immediacy to it.
Two thousand years or two thousand seconds, the imminency of Christ's return stands as originally declared: it is overhanging every moment of time until it occurs.

Had he been correct in his assumption, it would have happened in his lifetime... ...[text shortened]... church or the qualifications thereof; he is referring to the spiritual life in general.[/b]

"Two thousand years or two thousand seconds, the imminency of Christ's return stands as originally declared: it is overhanging every moment of time until it occurs."

I recall someone talking about an event people were waiting for, for
years upon years, then it was described as suddenly it happened.

No excuse for those that know about it, yet fail to act.
Kelly

Originally posted by whodey
As for yourself, is their nothing you would give your life for?

You bet. But that fact doesn't convince me the person or cause for whom/which I'd die is legitimately divine.