Originally posted by catfoodtimYeah, the Church, or shall I say God, says that I am a sinner as you yourself and everybody on earth is. It's a Biblical fact, but since you don't seem to accept God's word, I can't convince you. How am I a bigot by simply stating a Biblical fact. If I said I hated gays simply for being gay, then I could see where you were coming from, but I didin't say I hated gays, only that their lifestyle was against God...and that makes me a bigot? That's like me calling you a bigot because you don't like the color "red", or you don't believe the world is round...everytime we conservatives state our beliefs or philosophies and it doesn't mesh, you God-less people label us "bigots"...well, I guess I could say the same about you...you are a bigot because you don't believe that the Bible says homosexuality is wrong...but I won't stoop to your elementary level....have a nice day...😉
i cant think of any biological reason for bigots such as yourself to mate but the church doesnt label you a sinner does it?
jesus wept.
Originally posted by chancremechanicThe problem is you conservatives don't have a philosophy:
Yeah, the Church, or shall I say God, says that I am a sinner as you yourself and everybody on earth is. It's a Biblical fact, but since you don't seem to accept God's word, I can't convince you. How am I a bigot by simply stating a Biblical fact. If I said I hated gays simply for being gay, then I could see where you were coming from, but I d ...[text shortened]... ays homosexuality is wrong...but I won't stoop to your elementary level....have a nice day...😉
You just believe everything which is spoon fed to you. (From the media, the book of lies - aka the bible, etc)
This is why you are so full of it, and are incapable of having a rational, reasonable debate.
You have not learnt to philosophise!
Originally posted by chancremechanicWhich bible verse do you base your hatred on?
Yeah, the Church, or shall I say God, says that I am a sinner as you yourself and everybody on earth is. It's a Biblical fact, but since you don't seem to accept God's word, I can't convince you. How am I a bigot by simply stating a Biblical fact. If I said I hated gays simply for being gay, then I could see where you were coming from, but I d ...[text shortened]... ays homosexuality is wrong...but I won't stoop to your elementary level....have a nice day...😉
Originally posted by XanthosNZWhat part(s) of my posts did you decipher that I said I hated anyone? See what I mean about twisting words around? Learn to read, please. You can practice by searching the Bible yourself, or get a grownup to do it for you. 😲 🙄
Which bible verse do you base your hatred on?
Originally posted by catfoodtim
would you worry that by ignoring these crimes you are condoning them? isn't the reason that the church's brand of paedophilia has gone on for so long is simply that people would be too scared to question the moral and spiritual authority of these 'holy' men?
Is that question directed to me? If so, then I am neither ignoring nor condoning these crimes. There is no love lost between myself and those Bishops who, knowingly, tried to cover up these crimes and put priests in positions where they could cause more harm.
People are always scared to question authority - whether moral, spiritual or temporal.
the sole (no pun intended) power possessed by the church is summed up by your response; despite how often we question its values, actions, relevance and intentions its reply is "quite simply your soul is at stake."
Interestingly, your response reveals something about the questions you put to the Church. In terms like "values" and "relevance", you reveal that your distrust of the Church goes deeper (and, I would guess, longer) than the pedophily issue. You also do not seem to think that the soul is, really, at stake (or even if you have a soul at all). Is this issue the sole reason you are staying away from church? Or was it the last straw on the camel's back? Was it just the reason you needed to finally break away?
Anyhow, the issues can be simply expressed. Either you have a soul, or you do not. If so, then either that soul is at stake, or it is not. You will need to do plenty of reflection, study and thinking to answer these satisfactorily to yourself.
As for me, it is no great surprise that there are sinners in the Church. All men have sinned - some greater than others. To expect impeccability of the Church is to have an impossible expectation. However, I also realise that to judge a teaching by the efficacy or merits of the teacher is to make a non-reasoned judgment (possibly an emotional one).
Originally posted by chancremechanicOK I'll admit my mistake there. I scanned your post noticed the bit where you said you hated gays and didn't read the context.
What part(s) of my posts did you decipher that I said I hated anyone? See what I mean about twisting words around? Learn to read, please. You can practice by searching the Bible yourself, or get a grownup to do it for you. 😲 🙄
So what part of the bible do you use to call homosexuality a sin? I ask because I know what the commonly used verses are but which one does it for you?
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Originally posted by howardgeeThe Catholic church does not promote STD's by condemning contraceptives. The church teaches that the absolute precaution to precluding the spread of AIDs is to not have sex at all. Condomns have a 1 in 20 chance of breaking hence, are not reliable when it comes to preventing life threatening diseases. The church is is opposed tp abortion because it is regarded as gratuitoius killing of life. Ever heard of adoption!
The Catholic church promotes the unnecessary spread of painful and deadly sexually transmitted diseases such as AIDS by banning the use of contraceptives.
The Catholic church makes couples suffer by forcing them to have unwanted children (denying abortion).
The Catholic church victimises homosexuals by labelling them freaks, going against God's will ...[text shortened]... ithin its organisation.
Why should the Catholic church deprive the children of suffering?
God's will is love. I do not think homosexuality is wrong however the Cathoilic church does albeit, the practice of homosexuality. The church insists that homosexuals are normal, should participate in liturgues but are obliged to accept a life of celibacy.
The Catholic bible tells that everyone is equal: man, woman, even homosexual under the feet of Christ. They are just deluded by thinking that males should take care of the decisions. However there are more female saints, women can become sisters and nuns and are allowed to administer communnion.
A Catholic priest, who is one of my friends told me that pedophelia is evil and that it has ruined the relationship between lay poeple and clergy. He is the most trustworthy person i have ever encountered and i am affronted by any apsersions against poeple who devote their life not to God but to humanity.
You do realise that non- Catholics commit pedophelia as well?
All the Catholic church really surmises in teaching us is that we should love our neighbour. What is wrong about that?
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Originally posted by howardgeeActually the term siners has been abolished- in most churches. Sin is an absecence of God or synonymously love. Homesexuals have the capacity to commit sin as well as actions of love. Thus, they cannot be identified as sinful
How very magnanimous of your church to see gays as sinners without actually harming them! (Sarcastic LOL).
Homosexuality is a naturally occurring phenomena in the animal kingdom in general (Which God created According to you lot!).
It is not morally wrong. No innocent person gets hurt (except a few bottoms perhaps!)
At the very least your church labels homosexuals as sinners, when they are law abiding members of society.
Interesting debate...My sister (God bless her) has long been a devout Christian but only recently discovered her homosexuality. Naturally this perturbed her and her lover quite a bit and they discussed the whole issue with the church, prayed about it from morn til night, and generally ran the whole gamut of sin-expiatory routines. The advice of her church leaders? "Put it before God". So they did, with prayer. Guess what? God said it was okay...(Her brand of Christian believes in direct communion with God--unlike the Catholic shemozzle where you have to use an authorised agent).
I'm no Christian--no sirree--but I was brought up that way and to this day I cannot understand why Christians bother with the Old Testament, considering Jesus used it for toilet paper (figuratively speaking, of course) and reduced the 10 Commandments in cavalier fashion to two. I think my sister and her lover are practising both
😛
(The reductionist biological argument is self-serving at the very least: since the same logic taken further would have you believe that only reproductive sex is good for human beings, and that the pleasure experienced in sex is an animal aberration....a view historically endorsed by the Catholic church in Ireland, although perhaps no longer. I wouldn't know.)
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Originally posted by catfoodtimInterestingly there are a few stipulations for repentance given throughout the entire chrsitiuan scriptures 1. to repent you must forgive the sins of all your brothers and 2. Because God knows you heart and mind, to repent one must sincerely feel sorry for their sins. This means you can't repent at the last moment, if you consciously abuse children as a priest deciding to repent later on in life you are rejecting God and mocking his law. For some one infinitely wise it think God would see through this loop hole.
it is frightening the amount of cases, you must be right - i think the position must attract a certain type of man. im sure there was a programme on about maynooth college in ireland where it turned out most of the student priests were hopping in and out of each other's beds - the hypocrisy is unbelievable.
i guess the beauty of catholicism is that y ...[text shortened]... dying priests are more likely to have the chance to make a final confession. handy that really.