"The Causes of Atheism"

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
This one I care about immensely!

If you actually want to learn anything, then why not answer my questions?

Originally posted by divegeester
Two decades under a delusion; you must look back on that period and wonder why it took you so long to realise it is all such an obvious fallacy.

I think we all wonder that. Human psychology is weird. I am sure you wonder the same think about members of other religions.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Yes, but many on these boards have assured me that, despite my 2 decades invested in the faith, I must never actually have been saved, because I never had a true relationship with Jesus Christ. If I had, I would never have been able to walk away from it.

Or so the story goes.

SG, I appreciate your honesty and candor. Please sift the information you receive from anyone who presumes to tell you that they know the status of your innermost being in relationship with God. I'm fatigued @ GMT-6. Hope to see you tomorrow.

Originally posted by twhitehead
If you actually want to learn anything, then why not answer my questions?

"Greetings from afar, twhitehead. Though I'm pleased that you're weighing in I'd hoped you'd extend the courtesy of a fair shake to the lengthy original post. Please exercise judgmental restraint until you've assimilated the entire excerpt. Thanks."

I'll avail myself of both asking and answering your questions in due time. Let's take it in an orderly progression. Okay?

Pajama Time Postscript: An esteemed Oriental PHD Professor once told twenty something gb that "The confusion of knowledge was worse than ignorance". That sententious remark in his office late that afternoon stuck. Good night.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I think we all wonder that. Human psychology is weird. I am sure you wonder the same think about members of other religions.

My point is that theism is not an obvious fallacy, if it were then a bright guy like Swissgambit would not have spent two decades under its influence.

Originally posted by divegeester
Two decades under a delusion; you must look back on that period and wonder why it took you so long to realise it is all such an obvious fallacy.

I wouldn't call it an 'obvious' fallacy, not at all.

I tend to pick on some of the strange practices of certain followers of God, but the actual issue of God's existence? The best argument I know against that is the General Argument from Evil, and even that one doesn't get you to a logical proof that God doesn't exist. Even if it did, it would only cover the omni-everything God and not any of the gods that are a little less than omni.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
I'm ignorant of atheism and am intensely motivated to shore up the deficiency. ... So please bear with my intellectual clumsiness and selected topics that may seem awkward to you. This one I care about immensely!

1. A quick cure for your "intellectual clumsiness' would be to use plain English
(or American-English) rather than your convoluted pseudo-intellectual prose.

2. Ignorant of atheism? Atheism is nothing. It is a lack of. You cannot be ignorant of it!

3. "Care about immensely"????? This is a blatant lie based on your previous 1000 posts.

And lastly; why would anyone "ignorant of atheism" want to educate others on
the "Causes Of Atheism" ???? If you are ignorant ASK do not TELL

Originally posted by wolfgang59
1. A quick cure for your "intellectual clumsiness' would be to use plain English
(or American-English) rather than your convoluted pseudo-intellectual prose.

2. Ignorant of atheism? Atheism is nothing. It is a lack of. You cannot be ignorant of it!

3. "Care about immensely"????? This is a blatant lie based on your previous 1000 posts.

And lastl ...[text shortened]... t to educate others on
the "Causes Of Atheism" ???? If you are ignorant [b]ASK do not TELL[/b]

Thanks for your advice.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"The confusion of knowledge was worse than ignorance".

Sad that anyone subscribes to this.
But as is manifest in this forum - some do.

Originally posted by divegeester
My point is that theism is not an obvious fallacy, if it were then a bright guy like Swissgambit would not have spent two decades under its influence.

Would you describe astrology as 'an obvious fallacy'? I would, yet many 'bright guy's suffer under its influence for decades.
I think I agree with SwissGambit that general theism may not be so obviously fallacy, but many beliefs that theists hold clearly are. And I think this is part of reason why theism manages to hold on. Every theist accepts a different amount of fallacy but even the most moderate make it more permissible for the extreme cases to justify their positions.
Theism promotes a culture where professing belief in the ridiculous is acceptable.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Would you describe astrology as 'an obvious fallacy'? I would, yet many 'bright guy's suffer under its influence for decades.
I think I agree with SwissGambit that general theism may not be so obviously fallacy, but many beliefs that theists hold clearly are. And I think this is part of reason why theism manages to hold on. Every theist accepts a differe ...[text shortened]... positions.
Theism promotes a culture where professing belief in the ridiculous is acceptable.

So it is apparently obvious enough to be "ridiculous", and yet Swissgambit who is clearly an intelligent rational person spent at least 20 years believing in it. How do you account for that? Furthermore I believe you were also captivated by the ridiculousness of it all for some time.

Originally posted by divegeester
So it is apparently obvious enough to be "ridiculous", and yet Swissgambit who is clearly an intelligent rational person spent at least 20 years believing in it.

Not what I said.
I also do not know what specific beliefs Swissgambit held.

How do you account for that?
The nature of human psychology. People (even highly intelligent ones) frequently hold beliefs that are obviously ridiculous. One of the reasons I frequent this forum is that I find this phenomena interesting. I have found that many people do not believe what they profess to believe - and this dishonesty I find interesting too. This applies to things other than religion such as political or social issues (global warming, party policy, the passing on of culture).
Its interesting too that the dishonest gets remarkably more pronounced when people think they can get away with it. The things adults tell children is quite remarkable.

Furthermore I believe you were also captivated by the ridiculousness of it all for some time.
I was brought up as an Anglican but at no point did I believe everything in the Bible, nor was I expected to (most Anglicans do not). From a very early age I did question much of what I was taught to believe, but I did generally believe a God existed. At the age of about 12 I questioned even that and realised that even that did not stand up to scrutiny.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Now if Vitz’s theory is correct, we could expect many atheists we know to have a defective father. This naturally raises the question, What about the new atheists? Do they confirm this thesis?We know that Daniel Dennett’s father died in a plane crash in 1947, when Dennett was just five years old. As Vitz notes, losing one’s father at such a young age i ...[text shortened]... les between which a continuum of almost infinite gradations exist.” (2 of 4 to be continued)[/b]

Very little information available on Dawkins' father? Rubbish. I just happened to have finished 'An Appetite For Wonder' (Dawkins' biography) recently. His father, (Clinton) John Dawkins, lived to be 95 years old. They had a perfectly fine relationship their entire lives.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
1. A quick cure for your "intellectual clumsiness' would be to use plain English
(or American-English) rather than your convoluted pseudo-intellectual prose.

2. Ignorant of atheism? Atheism is nothing. It is a lack of. You cannot be ignorant of it!

3. "Care about immensely"????? This is a blatant lie based on your previous 1000 posts.

And lastl ...[text shortened]... t to educate others on
the "Causes Of Atheism" ???? If you are ignorant [b]ASK do not TELL[/b]

Atheism and ignorance go together like hands and gloves.

The Moron Instructor

Originally posted by divegeester
So it is apparently obvious enough to be "ridiculous", and yet Swissgambit who is clearly an intelligent rational person spent at least 20 years believing in it. How do you account for that? Furthermore I believe you were also captivated by the ridiculousness of it all for some time.

Let me ask you, do you know anyone who holds an obviously ridiculous belief? If so, do you therefore consider them to be unintelligent?
If not, how do you account for it?