09 Nov 06
Originally posted by FreakyKBHYes, I guess I have to admit that you are indeed special.
I don't see very many others here who have the ability to:
1. Say it
2. Support it
So, yeah: I suppose that puts me in the minority. Ain't I just special?
By the way, in this Oxford dictionary I have here, it says 'special' can mean EXCEPTIONAL. But it can also mean PECULIAR.
09 Nov 06
Originally posted by Kevin McfarlandThe only way the devil could be judged to have done something wrong is if he had the ability and means to do something right instead, otherwise it is all a puppet show with Hell at the end of it.
am i making my question clear to understand? the idea pepole blame the devil can the devil blame God. taken with my other posts I hope u understand my question. Thanks Kevin
Kelly
09 Nov 06
Originally posted by FreakyKBHYou're going to have to explain that difference to show it's advantage to your argument..
A distinction exists between preordained and foreknown. Thus, the co-existence of (possibly antithetical) free wills. To be sure, it's not an easy concept to understand, but once understood the picture begins to make a heckuva lot more sense.
Something may be preordained and yet not generally foreknown. In this case Lucifer may not have known - BUT god did. So, though Lucifer may have thought that he was acting on his own free will, god had already arranged matters.
09 Nov 06
Originally posted by sugiezdOmniscience does not entail arrangement by any means. Knowing action does not equate with acting; it merely acknowledges action.
You're going to have to explain that difference to show it's advantage to your argument..
Something may be preordained and yet not generally foreknown. In this case Lucifer may not have known - BUT god did. So, though Lucifer may have thought that he was acting on his own free will, god had already arranged matters.
09 Nov 06
Originally posted by Kevin McfarlandAdam tried a similiar argument when he told God the woman YOU gave me gave me the fruit and I ate it. It was still his choice. It was Satan’s choice to sin. In order for God to have beings that will love and worship Him by choice, they have to actually have a choice. Hence the opportunity for sin must exist.
If God made everything even than angles than did God put in the devil that he would go against God. Did God doom the devil to Hell? Thanks Kevin
10 Nov 06
Originally posted by FreakyKBHThat has nothing to do with my point.
Omniscience does not entail arrangement by any means. Knowing action does not equate with acting; it merely acknowledges action.
God knew - lucifer didn't
Lucifer thus was under the illusion that he had free will - which he didn't, it was going to happen anyway.
Also, not only is your god omniscient, he is also all powerfull. Thus, as you seem to admit that he had foreknowledge then who but he could have caused this to happen?
10 Nov 06
Originally posted by sugiezdThat has nothing to do with my point.
That has nothing to do with my point.
God knew - lucifer didn't
Lucifer thus was under the illusion that he had free will - which he didn't, it was going to happen anyway.
Also, not only is your god omniscient, he is also all powerfull. Thus, as you seem to admit that he had foreknowledge then who but he could have caused this to happen?
It has everything to do with your point. You are equating knowledge with action, and such an equation is not consistent with reality. God's perfect knowledge in no way necessarily affects or impacts any other action.
The fact that you are not able to comprehend co-existence of multiple wills within the same power sphere does not any any way make such co-existence possible.