The Freedom of Uncertainty

But I am here to tell you, there is nothing beyond the grave.

Why do you think a Christian would only be concerned about beyond the grave?

Isn't it punishment enough to wake up not knowing why you live, adopting many faddish and passing ideas, only to go to bed just as empty and perplexed as when you woke up?

Jimi Hendrix sang "Will I live tomorrow? Well I just can't say. I only sure, I don't live today... Feel like I'm living in the bottom of a grave."

Victory over physical death is wonderful in Christ.
Just as wonderful is the sense of meaning from being so deeply loved by the Heavenly Father right now.

Originally posted by rwingett
The danger here, it seems to me, is conflating expertise with critical thinking. More often than not, the two are at loggerheads with one another. As expertise tends to narrow ones responses to those that are endorsed by the system in which one has gained expertise, critical thinking is diminished. The greater the level of "expertise", the narrower the scop ...[text shortened]... 8th grade. But they have managed to create a more just world than all the experts combined.

I could not more wholeheartedly agree. It is so well, so succinctly said. Thank you. I miss your accent. Greetings.

Where's that printer?

Originally posted by sonship

But I am here to tell you, there is nothing beyond the grave.

Why do you think a Christian would only be concerned about beyond the grave?

Isn't it punishment enough to wake up not knowing why you live, adopting many faddish and passing ideas, only to go to bed just as empty and perplexed as when you woke up?

Jimi Hendrix sang ...[text shortened]... erful is the sense of meaning from being so deeply loved by the Heavenly Father right now.

We all look upon the same boundless truth through the glass of our own mind. This one knows that his is different to the other, while you fearfully sticking to your lens, keeps saying, "No!, no! this is the only view!".

Originally posted by rwingett
The danger here, it seems to me, is conflating expertise with critical thinking. More often than not, the two are at loggerheads with one another. As expertise tends to narrow ones responses to those that are endorsed by the system in which one has gained expertise, critical thinking is diminished. The greater the level of "expertise", the narrower the scop ...[text shortened]... 8th grade. But they have managed to create a more just world than all the experts combined.

I don't buy that expertise is generally at odds with critical thinking. My experience dealing with experts is that not only can they readily find the mistakes of others, but they are often not content with their own answers even when everyone else is.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
I don't buy that expertise is generally at odds with critical thinking. My experience dealing with experts is that not only can they readily find the mistakes of others, but they are often not content with their own answers even when everyone else is.

That is not my experience at all. My experience is that so called experts are just as vain, petty and shallow-minded as the population at large and that their goal is not to make a better system, but to increase the level of influence for their own particular area of expertise. Their only advantage over the layman is that they're better trained at making their own personal prejudices sound like reasonable policy recommendations. And the narrower their level of expertise becomes, the more divorced from the common good those policy recommendations will be.

Originally posted by Taoman
We all look upon the same boundless truth through the glass of our own mind. This one knows that his is different to the other, while you fearfully sticking to your lens, keeps saying, "No!, no! this is the only view!".

That reminds of the quote by Carl Sagan:

In some respects, science has far surpassed religion in delivering awe. How is it that hardly any major religion has looked at science and concluded, “This is better than we thought! The Universe is much bigger than our prophets said, grander, more subtle, more elegant. God must be even greater than we dreamed!”? Instead they say, “No, no, no! My god is a little god, and I want him to stay that way.”

Originally posted by vistesd
At the bottom of this post are some links to sites discussing the Dunning-Kruger effect—where people who are relatively less competent/knowledgeable about a subject tend to overestimate their own knowledge/competence, while the more knowledgeable/competent tend to underestimate that. Apparently, some education in logic and critical thinking can alleviate th ence-the-classic-dunning-kruger-effect

http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb03/overestimate.aspx

That's why I got sus on 'education' at an early age. I must been about 12 at the time when it dawned on me that absolutely no one knew a goddam thing about who they were or what they were doing here (or where they had come from).
Occasionally I'd start meeting people with startling eyes and a knowing look that confirmed to me what I suspected as a child - the human race was without a rudder, and that made me think if no one has control of the rudder then the potential for panics and disasters were very real possibilities.

Considering the amount of disturbing panicky disasterous things that have transpired in the last 26 I actually reckon we got through that stretch - as a planet - not too bad.

Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
For all your religious fervour, you may rant and rave.
But I am here to tell you, there is nothing beyond the grave.
Try to help one another while on this earth you dwell,
for there is nothing later, after your funeral bell.

No it's not beyond the grave. It's right here. We were born to live and find our direction. Dying doesn't sound like it would achieve anything, other than keep the balance in the universe.

Originally posted by Taoman
Thanks visted, and warm greetings. Much appreciated.

"He who does not expect will not find out the unexpected, for it is trackless and unexplored." Heraclitus

When doubt builds to a fever pitch and we are all fear,
seeking frantically for a way out, the way in can suddenly appear. Mu!

As tough as nails !!!

Originally posted by rwingett
The danger here, it seems to me, is conflating expertise with critical thinking. More often than not, the two are at loggerheads with one another. As expertise tends to narrow ones responses to those that are endorsed by the system in which one has gained expertise, critical thinking is diminished. The greater the level of "expertise", the narrower the scop 8th grade. But they have managed to create a more just world than all the experts combined.

I disagree. I'm not saying everyone must understand this conflated version, but to get the points across like that I think it needed to be extrapolated in that manner.

Originally posted by sonship

But I am here to tell you, there is nothing beyond the grave.

Why do you think a Christian would only be concerned about beyond the grave?

Isn't it punishment enough to wake up not knowing why you live, adopting many faddish and passing ideas, only to go to bed just as empty and perplexed as when you woke up?

Jimi Hendrix sang ...[text shortened]... erful is the sense of meaning from being so deeply loved by the Heavenly Father right now.

Christians would be extremely concerned about beyond the grave. I imagine a lot of them a doing heavy penance to avoid the hell they believe to be awaiting them. Then there would be a lot of others who might not feel altogether sure what's exactly going to happen in heaven - and uncertainty is a little discordant with most Christians versions of heaven.

Originally posted by Taoman
We all look upon the same boundless truth through the glass of our own mind. This one knows that his is different to the other, while you fearfully sticking to your lens, keeps saying, "No!, no! this is the only view!".

It would certainly be a fine bow to have in your quiver. (the knowledge that there are other views)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I disagree. I'm not saying everyone must understand this conflated version, but to get the points across like that I think it needed to be extrapolated in that manner.

You don't get a prize for making the most consecutive posts in the same thread.

Originally posted by rwingett
You don't get a prize for making the most consecutive posts in the same thread.

I know. I answer every post I have a coherent position. Don't worry I leave plenty hangin'

Originally posted by rwingett
That is not my experience at all. My experience is that so called experts are just as vain, petty and shallow-minded as the population at large and that their goal is not to make a better system, but to increase the level of influence for their own particular area of expertise. Their only advantage over the layman is that they're better trained at making th ...[text shortened]... expertise becomes, the more divorced from the common good those policy recommendations will be.

OK, so you're not really talking about people who have a greater understanding of a subject, but rather those that want the reputation.