Spirituality
08 Aug 14
13 Aug 14
Originally posted by galveston75You claimed there were no accounts that disagreed with the Bible; I contested that listing you a plethora of potential example sources, including books on palaeontology, geology, anthropology etc etc. I'm not saying I agree with them - I'm just contesting your usual broad sweeping generalisations.
So before I do, do they agree with the Bible? If not why not and at what point do you not believe th bible and take mans ideas over it?
I really don't care if you don't want to look them up to see for yourself what you already know to be true (i.e. that there are documented accounts that disagree with the Bible).
13 Aug 14
Originally posted by galveston75As I’ve just posted above I don't care that you disagree with - if you believe that a magical knowledge giving tree has some sort of real fruit hanging on it that when eaten creates an "eye opening" revolutionary experience of the knowledge of good and evil - just by eating it - and you choose to think this is literal rather than symbolic - then fine, I don't care, I just wanted to see you write it.
I don't have a problem with your beliefs. I don't agree with most but that's nothing new.
But take the time if you can and prove to me it's not literal?
In turn I don't have to prove it's a literal because nothing or no one in the Bible ever even slightly hints that it's not real.
+++++++++ So the bibles account of Jesus's lineage coming from Adam is not real and a lie? +++++++++++
Do you believe Adam even existed?
13 Aug 14
Originally posted by lemon limeI refer you to my replies to Galveston above.
Are you comparing the fruit of the spirit to literal fruit that comes from a tree? People bear fruit too, according to the Bible... "you will know them by their fruits", but this doesn't mean you might find plums growing in someones armpits, does it...
There is nothing to suggest in the book of Genesis that the tree of knowledge of good and evil ...[text shortened]... t limited to doing only one thing at a time... or for one thing or event to mean only one thing.
13 Aug 14
Originally posted by divegeesterThere are lots of accounts, people, murderers, freeks, politicians, satan, etc, etc that disagree with the bible. So what? I don't care what they think or say or do about much of anything.
You claimed there were no accounts that disagreed with the Bible; I contested that listing you a plethora of potential example sources, including books on palaeontology, geology, anthropology etc etc. I'm not saying I agree with them - I'm just contesting your usual broad sweeping generalisations.
I really don't care if you don't want to look them u ...[text shortened]... already know to be true (i.e. that there are documented accounts that disagree with the Bible).
I care about what God has said to us in his work the bible. The bible gives no indication at all that the events of the garden of Eden were not real.
Until he tells me differently, I take it as being real.
So now that you avoided most of my quesions, I'll try again.
Was Adam a real person?
13 Aug 14
Originally posted by divegeesterYou didn't read my post about this did you?
As I’ve just posted above I don't care that you disagree with - if you believe that a magical knowledge giving tree has some sort of real fruit hanging on it that when eaten creates an "eye opening" revolutionary experience of the knowledge of good and evil - just by eating it - and you choose to think this is literal rather than symbolic - then fine, I don't care, I just wanted to see you write it.
13 Aug 14
"Could I ask why you feel the garden and Adam and Eve were not real? What makes you think this and what proof do you or anyone else have other then[sic] man[']s philosophies that it isn't real? I'm curious as to where this idea started because all of God's followers right up to Jesus and beyond took it literal[ly]."
You answered your own question:
"Jesus is not talking of literal friut [sic], do you think he was?
Do you really not understand what he is speaking of? When the Bible speaks of producing fruit from ones actions either good or bad, do you think it is speaking of real fruit?"
If 'The fruits of one's actions' is a metaphor, then the 'garden' where those 'fruits' 'grew' was also metaphoric. No proof is needed: the account in Genesis was meant as moral allegory, not factual geodesy.
13 Aug 14
Originally posted by moonbusWho says? By ones who love and respect God's word the Bible? Hardly.....
"Could I ask why you feel the garden and Adam and Eve were not real? What makes you think this and what proof do you or anyone else have other then[sic] man[']s philosophies that it isn't real? I'm curious as to where this idea started because all of God's followers right up to Jesus and beyond took it literal[ly]."
You answered your own question:
"Jes ...[text shortened]... ic. No proof is needed: the account in Genesis was meant as moral allegory, not factual geodesy.
Was the garden of Eden a real place?
"Why is there doubt on this score? Philosophy may have played a role. For centuries, theologians speculated that God’s garden was still in existence somewhere. However, the church was influenced by such Greek philosophers as Plato and Aristotle, who held that nothing on the earth could be perfect. Only heaven could contain perfection. Therefore, theologians reasoned, the original Paradise had to be closer to heaven.* Some said that the garden sat atop an extremely high mountain that reached just above the confines of this degraded planet; others, that it was at the North Pole or the South Pole; still others, that it was on or near the moon. Not surprisingly, the whole concept of Eden took on an aura of fantasy. Some modern-day scholars dismiss the geography of Eden as nonsense, asserting that no such place ever existed.
However, the Bible does not portray the garden that way. At Genesis 2:8-14, we learn a number of specifics about that place. It was located in the eastern part of the region called Eden. It was watered by a river that became the source for four rivers. Each of the four is named, and a brief description about its course provided. These details have long tantalized scholars, many of whom have scoured this Bible passage for clues to the present-day location of this ancient site. However, they have come up with innumerable contradictory opinions. Does this mean that the physical description of Eden, its garden, and its rivers is false or mythical?
Consider: The events in the garden of Eden account unfolded some 6,000 years ago. They were put into writing, evidently by Moses, who may have made use of oral accounts or perhaps even preexisting documents. Still, Moses was writing about 2,500 years after the events described. Eden was already ancient history. Now, is it possible for such landmarks as rivers to change over the course of dozens of centuries? The earth’s crust is dynamic, ever in motion. The region that likely included Eden is an earthquake belt—one that now accounts for about 17 percent of the world’s largest quakes. In such areas, change is the rule rather than the exception. What is more, the Flood of Noah’s day may have altered the topography in ways that we simply cannot know today.
Here, though, are a few facts that we do know: The Genesis account speaks of the garden as a real place. Two of the four rivers mentioned in the account—the Euphrates and the Tigris, or Hiddekel—flow today, and some of their source waters are very close together. The account even names the lands through which those rivers flowed and specifies the natural resources well-known in the area. To the people of ancient Israel, the original audience who read this record, these details were informative.
Do myths and fairy tales work that way? Or do they tend to omit specifics that could readily be verified or denied? “Once upon a time in a faraway land” is a way to begin a fairy tale. History, though, tends to include relevant details, as the Eden account does."
13 Aug 14
Originally posted by galveston75There seem to be a few paragraphs of text here from "off the shelf", so to speak. 😀
Who says? By ones who love and respect God's word the Bible? Hardly.....
Was the garden of Eden a real place?
"Why is there doubt on this score? Philosophy may have played a role. For centuries, theologians speculated that God’s garden was still in existence somewhere. However, the church was influenced by such Greek philosophers a ...[text shortened]... gin a fairy tale. History, though, tends to include relevant details, as the Eden account does."
13 Aug 14
Originally posted by divegeesterI just wanted to know if you are referring to what the Bible actually says or not.
What difference does that make?
Did the tree of the knowledge of good and evil have fruit on it? You were suggesting it wasn't a "fruit tree". Every translation and version of the Bible I've seen suggests it was a fruit tree. This is why I'm asking you what version or translation of the Bible are you using... if you don't own a Bible you can find different versions/translations of this passage online.
And please don't ask 'What passage are you referring to?' Just answer the question... or not answer it.
13 Aug 14
Originally posted by lemon limeGood luck on that......
I just wanted to know if you are referring to what the Bible actually says or not.
Did the tree of the knowledge of good and evil have fruit on it? You were suggesting it wasn't a "fruit tree". Every translation and version of the Bible I've seen suggests it was a fruit tree. This is why I'm asking you what version or translation of the Bible ar ...[text shortened]... /i] don't ask 'What passage are you referring to?' Just answer the question... or not answer it.