Spirituality
25 Sep 06
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27 Sep 06
Originally posted by no1marauderAll these statements assume the existence of God whether you would like to admit it or not.
A better argument would be:
1. If God is all-good, He would not have wished for evil to exist;
2. If God is all-powerful, He could have assured that evil didn't exist;
3. Evil exists;
Therefore;
A) God is not all-good; OR
B) God is not all-powerful; OR
C) God (at least with the attributes you impute to him) doesn't exist.
27 Sep 06
Originally posted by dj2beckerAre you going to stay on-topic or not?
So for arguments sake, God does not exist? 😉
I don't know whether a "God" exists or not; I do know that a God like the one in the OT almost certainly doesn't exist and the "Argument from Evil" is ONE reason why (but there are many other pieces of evidence leading to the same conclusion).
27 Sep 06
3 edits
Originally posted by dj2becker1, 2 and 3 are premises. Feel free to attack the factual truth of the premises if you can; that is one way to show that a logical argument is weak.
So for arguments sake, God does not exist? 😉
Ps: I was refering to 1,2.3. Not A,B,C.
A, B, and C are conclusions from the premises. To show they are not strong or acceptable conclusions, you must either A) Show that the premises are incorrect; or B) Show that the conclusions do not follow from the premises.
This is what is called logical argument.
EDIT: If I start with the premise that there is no God, I need not proceed with any of this at all. Therefore, I am willing to accept for the sake of argument that God exists and that he has the attributes of the 3 O's that you give him to show that if he cannot logically have these attributes and still have evil exist.
27 Sep 06
Originally posted by dj2beckerPoppycock. Suppose, for a second, that God really doesn't exist. Does this mean I'm going to vanish in a puff of smoke? We simply don't know if God exists or not, so that statement is at least 50% guarenteed to be false.
If there was no God, there would be no such a thing as an atheist.
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27 Sep 06
Originally posted by no1marauderYou don't seem to get my point. I am saying that if for 'arguments sake' you assume the existence of God, you have to be consistent throughout with your logic in order to show that God cannot logically exist. You cannot simply exclude him from the paradigm when you want to.
Are you going to stay on-topic or not?
I don't know whether a "God" exists or not; I do know that a God like the one in the OT almost certainly doesn't exist and the "Argument from Evil" is ONE reason why (but there are many other pieces of evidence leading to the same conclusion).
27 Sep 06
Originally posted by Bosse de NageYes, quite possibly. Think about current religious prcatice. You get a whole group of people together to be group brain washed and whipped up into a religious fervour (indeed, I have even been party to this; there was singing!). You then tell them that their deaths will be for the greater glory of god and their reward will be eternal bliss in heaven, now go off and kill that brown chap over there.
internal bump
(Come on it's interesting and has snake-handling preachers!)
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27 Sep 06
Originally posted by scottishinnzI was refering to a strong atheist.
Poppycock. Suppose, for a second, that God really doesn't exist. Does this mean I'm going to vanish in a puff of smoke? We simply don't know if God exists or not, so that statement is at least 50% guarenteed to be false.