The Moral Argument for God's Existence

@kellyjay said
Which is needed why? If all truth, all reasons are internal, why would anyone
feel the need to justify what they do, they would just do it. It isn't because they
must by law or society justify themselves, but they will. Reasons for actions
especially those we would call bad typically always have some justification. The
need to is because we all have the need to be just, ...[text shortened]... at we are required
to act properly, give our obedience too a standard we should have been aware of.

As soon as we use the terms "supposed to", "should have", "that is wrong" we have stated that there is in the universe a non-subjective standard implying that we are required to act properly, give our obedience too a standard we should have been aware of.

That standard is not based on YOUR subjective and self-serving interpretation of the Bible.

@kellyjay said
Which is needed why?

To be clear: you are asking me why people taking personal responsibility for what they do "is needed"?

@kellyjay said
As soon as we
use the terms "supposed to", "should have", "that is wrong" we have stated that
there is in the universe a non-subjective standard implying that we are required
to act properly, give our obedience too a standard we should have been aware of.

Nonsense. It demonstrates that [1] people's moral compasses are kicking in, and [2] people's moral compasses vary because they are, by their very nature and source, subjective.

@kellyjay said
If all truth, all reasons are internal, why would anyone
feel the need to justify what they do, they would just do it. It isn't because they
must by law or society justify themselves, but they will. Reasons for actions
especially those we would call bad typically always have some justification. The
need to is because we all have the need to be just, not wrong.

People feel the need to justify what they do because it is part of our human nature.

@fmf said
People feel the need to justify what they do because it is part of our human nature.

Yes, a part we all share, so I doubt its man made, or we would have rejected and
neglected it by now. It had to come to us from something bigger and better than us.

@kellyjay said
Yes, a part we all share, so I doubt its man made, or we would have rejected and
neglected it by now. It had to come to us from something bigger and better than us.

This is an entirely subjective thing for you to surmise. And there's nothing wrong with that. We all do it. It's in our nature to be subjective in the way you are being subjective now.

@fmf said
This is an entirely subjective thing for you to surmise. And there's nothing wrong with that. We all do it. It's in our nature to be subjective in the way you are being subjective now.

2 Timothy 3:7
always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

🙂

@kellyjay said
2 Timothy 3:7
always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

You think this achieves something? It seems a rather tawdry use of the Bible if you ask me, and I am not even religious anymore.

@fmf said
It seems a rather tawdry use of the Bible if you ask me

Like sonship calling my ideas "faeces" - and pointing to the word in the Bible. Or Suzianne calling me a "dog" - and pointing to the word in the Bible - or Eladar calling me a "pig" and pointing to the word in the Bible - or anyone calling somebody they disagree with a "fool" and pointing to the word in the Bible. It strikes me as tawdry.

@fmf said
You think this achieves something? It seems a rather tawdry use of the Bible if you ask me, and I am not even religious anymore.

No, I think the truth of it is very clear, always learning, always seeking, and never
finding. You being anything anymore isn't part of this, you are who you are. Is this
right, is this better, always something else.

@kellyjay said
No, I think the truth of it is very clear, always learning, always seeking, and never
finding. You being anything anymore isn't part of this, you are who you are. Is this
right, is this better, always something else.

I think it's a tawdry use of the Bible.

@fmf said
I think it's a tawdry use of the Bible.

An opinion I don't share.

@kellyjay said
Yes, a part we all share, so I doubt its man made, or we would have rejected and
neglected it by now. It had to come to us from something bigger and better than us.

This is an entirely subjective thing for you to surmise. And there's nothing wrong with that. We all do it. It's in our nature to be subjective in the way you are being subjective now. [Maybe you would like to resume now after your silly 'scriptural' deflection?]

@kellyjay said
An opinion I don't share.

Why don't you just call me a "dog" and then show me where it uses the word "dog" in the Bible? Why don't you just say I have an "unclean pig" nature and then show me where it uses the words "unclean pig" in the Bible? Try to remember I am an agnostic atheist. Quoting the Bible to deflect INSTEAD of continuing the discussion is just weak.

@fmf said
Why don't you just call me a "dog" and then show me where it uses the word "dog" in the Bible? Why don't you just say I have an "unclean pig" nature and then show me where it uses the words "unclean pig" in the Bible? Try to remember I am an agnostic atheist. Quoting the Bible to deflect INSTEAD of continuing the discussion is just weak.

What happen to just being subjective? You don't like people disagreeing with you
that you have to go here? Am I to only hold on to what you think is right, if not
I may as well call you a dog? If I use the Bible it is because I believe in it, that is no
different than using a calculator to do some math. You disagree that you are
always learning and never coming to the truth? If you do than something about
your views on being subjective are off.