THE PROBLEM(S) OF EVIL: answered

Originally posted by dj2becker
It is my contention that evil entered the world when man disobeyed God, and that mankind bears the consequences of this choice.

This means one of two things:

1) There were no earthquakes or tidal waves before the Fall; or,
2) There were earthquakes and tidal waves, but they couldn't hurt
humankind.

If 1), does the 'creation' of earthquakes and tidal waves seem consistent
with a loving God? Does killing people in sudden, painful fashions
really sound like justice to you for what dumb Adam and dumb Eve did?

Nemesio

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yea, I'd say all the natural disasters are a result of the earth being
cursed for the sin of man since we were in charge of it at the time.

And this sounds like 'perfect justice' from a 'loving God' to you?

Nemesio

Originally posted by dj2becker
Adam received the punishment for his sin. If you were killed in an earthquake it would be for your own sin.

As no man is without sin, you cannot be punished for someone else's sin, but you can be punished for your own sin.

A slight correction (okay, I'm being nice: it's a big one, really). Adam most certainly did not receive the punishment for his sin. While he did die an immediate spiritual death, the actual punishment for his and all other sins was bore by our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Your reasonings regarding sin and death, penalty and punishment are so far off the mark, this is probably not the place to correct them.

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
I don't understand what you mean.

I think he's saying that if you are dead, you are dead no matter how you died.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
A slight correction (okay, I'm being nice: it's a big one, really). Adam most certainly did [b]not receive the punishment for his sin. While he did die an immediate spiritual death, the actual punishment for his and all other sins was bore by our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Your reasonings regarding sin and death, penalty and punishment are so far off the mark, this is probably not the place to correct them.[/b]

I'm sorry. I see I was very vague.

I would like to sum up everything that I meant to say in this sentence:

"Adam died a physical death as a result of his sin."

Originally posted by Nemesio
This means one of two things:

1) There were no earthquakes or tidal waves before the Fall; or,
2) There were earthquakes and tidal waves, but they couldn't hurt
humankind.

If 1), does the 'creation' of earthquakes and tidal waves seem consistent
with a loving God? Does killing people in sudden, painful fashions
really sound like justice to you for what dumb Adam and dumb Eve did?

Nemesio

It would seem that love and justice are incompatible attributes. If, God is just, he must punish sin. But if he is loving, he would forgive sin. How then can he be both?

The attributes of God are not contradictory. He is both absolutely just and yet unconditionally loving. Each attribute complements the other. God is "justly holy" and "holy just." That is, his justice is administered in love, and his love is distributed justly.

The perfect example of how God's love and justice kiss is in the cross. In his love, God sent his Son to pay the penalty for our sins so that his justice could be satisfied and his love released. For "the wages of sin is death". So when Christ died for our sins the Just suffered for the unjust that he might bring us to God. "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God" (2Cor 5:21)

God's justice demands that sin be punnished, but his love compels him to save sinners. So by Christ's death on the cross, his justice is satisfied and his love released. God is like a judge who, after passing out the punnishment for the guilty defendant, laid aside his robe, stood alongside the convicted, and paid the fine for him. Jesus did the same for us on Calvary. Surely justice and mercy kissed at the cross.

Now, with regards to earthquakes, I would say the following:

The original creation was "very good". (Gen 1:31) There was no sin, no evil, no pain, and no death. What brought these about? Scripture indicates that the turn downward came the moment Adam and Eve used their God-given free will to choose to disobey God. (see Gen 3).

Originally posted by dj2becker
I'm sorry. I see I was very vague.

I would like to sum up everything that I meant to say in this sentence:

"Adam died a physical death as a result of his sin."

Better, but Adam did not receive the penalty of his sin by virtue of his physical death. If that were the case, God would be compelled to receive everyone into His kingdom upon physical death... and we know that not to be the case.

Originally posted by dj2becker
It would seem that love and justice are incompatible attributes. If, God is just, he must punish sin. But if he is loving, he would forgive sin. How then can he be both?

The attributes of God are not contradictory. He is both absolutely just and yet unconditionally loving. Each attribute complements the other. God is "justly holy" and "holy just." That ...[text shortened]... Adam and Eve used their God-given free will to choose to disobey God. (see Gen 3).

Yeah, but it's still not my fault that Adam chose to sin. Why should I get punished by, or be at risk from punishment by, natural disasters?

Or, if you think I deserve to get punished, or to have the dice thrown for me, what about innocent little children?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Better, but Adam did not receive the penalty of his sin by virtue of his physical death. If that were the case, God would be compelled to receive everyone into His kingdom upon physical death... and we know that not to be the case.

Better, but Adam did not receive the penalty of his sin by virtue of his physical death.

Definately not. His physical death was just one of the consequences of his sin.

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
Yeah, but it's still not my fault that Adam chose to sin. Why should I get punished by, or be at risk from punishment by, natural disasters?

Or, if you think I deserve to get punished, or to have the dice thrown for me, what about innocent little children?

I seem to be missing your point.

Are you trying to say that you have not sinned?

Originally posted by dj2becker
The Garden of Eden had no natural disasters or death until after the sin of Adam and Eve.

I've seen this claim on more than one occasion. It seems to contradict every shred of scientific evidence collected on the nature of Earth. Can anyone provide any non-biblical support for the idea there was ever a time, here on Earth, where nature did not produce elemental disasters, or that life on Earth wasn't in a birth-life-death cycle?

Originally posted by dj2becker
I seem to be missing your point.

Are you trying to say that you have not sinned?

No. But, as it happens, I haven't.

Originally posted by David C
I've seen this claim on more than one occasion. It seems to contradict every shred of scientific evidence collected on the nature of Earth. Can anyone provide any non-biblical support for the idea there was ever a time, here on Earth, where nature did not produce elemental disasters, or that life on Earth wasn't in a birth-life-death cycle?

Such scientific evidence relies heavily on improvable presuppositions either way.

Thus we accept what the Bible says on this issue.

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
No. But, as it happens, I haven't.

No.

What then?

But, as it happens, I haven't.

The Bible says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]No.

What then?

But, as it happens, I haven't.

The Bible says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.[/b]

So much, then, for biblical inerrancy.