@rajk999 saidThanks. I’ll look into your answer tomorrow!
Here is some of it. Will get some more as the day progresses. Its Mt Olives, not Sinai as I first stated. I dont really fancy this part of scripture and neither do I get deeply involved into analyzing or discussing it. I often read it and keep my opinions to myself. My reason is that many people go overboard and add their own opinions into it, and worse they try to make pr ...[text shortened]... mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. (Zechariah 14:2-4 KJV)[/i]
@rajk999 saidI’d would be grateful if you could find scriptures on the pieces you mentioned in your first post please Rajk999.
Here is some of it. Will get some more as the day progresses. Its Mt Olives, not Sinai as I first stated. I dont really fancy this part of scripture and neither do I get deeply involved into analyzing or discussing it. I often read it and keep my opinions to myself. My reason is that many people go overboard and add their own opinions into it, and worse they try to make pr ...[text shortened]... mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. (Zechariah 14:2-4 KJV)[/i]
Mt Of Olives split in two I’m good with. It sits right on a major fault line.
- Israel specific borders
- Solomon temple rebuilt
- Jews ruling Jerusalem
- Dead Sea dries up
All at the time of the second coming.
Interesting thread.
@divegeester saidYes, hold your horses. The Dead Sea one is about the it not being salty anymore. I said it will dry up. That was incorrect.. Now the Israeli specific borders .. the bible wont say that. It says God will gather them back into the land that he gave them. No need to state borders there. "All at the time of the second coming" does not need to be specifically stated either. We are living in the time of the second coming. Eg when Israel started going back to Palestine, that was a signal that the end times had started So it is not going to be cut and dried, but interesting it is.
I’d would be grateful if you could find scriptures on the pieces you mentioned in your first post please Rajk999.
Mt Of Olives split in two I’m good with. It sits right on a major fault line.
- Israel specific borders
- Solomon temple rebuilt
- Jews ruling Jerusalem
- Dead Sea dries up
All at the time of the second coming.
Interesting thread.
I have to dig up these references. Its not like Faith v Works argument which I can do easily.
The Dead Sea
This one needs some additional study to appreciate but some commentaries believe this speaks of the future of the Dad Sea, which will come to life.
Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh. And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many. But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt. And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine. (Ezekiel 47:8-12 KJV)
Barnes Commentary “The sea” is a term commonly applied to the Dead Sea. Compare Deu_3:17, “the sea of the plain (Arabah), even the salt sea.” The more literal rendering of the verse in this sense would be, “and go into the sea; into the sea go the waters that issue forth, and the waters shall be healed.”
Healed - Every living thing (of which there were none before) shall abound in the “healed” waters. The absence of living creatures in the Dead Sea has been remarked by ancient and modern writers. So the water which Jesus should give should bring life to the dead in trespasses and sins. Compare Joh_4:14; Rev_22:2-3.
@rajk999 saidInteresting, but inconclusive as to the question in the OP which is asking about specific situations at the time of the return of Christ.
The Dead Sea
This one needs some additional study to appreciate but some commentaries believe this speaks of the future of the Dad Sea, which will come to life.
Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. And it shall c ...[text shortened]... should give should bring life to the dead in trespasses and sins. Compare Joh_4:14; Rev_22:2-3.
I find this topic interesting because I’ve met lots of Christians who all have their pet theories on the signs of end times and Christ’s return and to be honest I’ve not hear a good argument from scripture linking specifics to the situation of Israel.
@divegeester saidIm sure you know ... There is that same woman who gives the three of us thumbs down. I look forward to seeing it because I know she is reading the posts ... lol 😀
@Rajk999
Looks like you’re getting a single thumb down, I wonder who that could be...,
The rebuilding of the Temple
This one requires the linking of several passages
The Jews return and rebuild the cities
God will dwell among them
And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God. (Amos 9:14-15 KJV)
That God wants to dwell among the Jews is easy to prove.
@divegeester saidYou are right about that. There are many theories and discussions on these things will never be conclusive. The big BUT is that the prophets speak of these as end time events, most are centered around the Jews returning to Palestine and what happens thereafter.
Interesting, but inconclusive as to the question in the OP which is asking about specific situations at the time of the return of Christ.
I find this topic interesting because I’ve met lots of Christians who all have their pet theories on the signs of end times and Christ’s return and to be honest I’ve not hear a good argument from scripture linking specifics to the situation of Israel.
As we speak now people who are caught up with this issue are going overboard about the current state of fighting in Palestine, and making all kinds of predictions. Personally I avoid that kind of drama.
@rajk999 saidThis doesn’t link to the return of Jesus.
The rebuilding of the Temple
This one requires the linking of several passages
The Jews return and rebuild the cities
God will dwell among them
And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat ...[text shortened]... the LORD thy God. (Amos 9:14-15 KJV)
That God wants to dwell among the Jews is easy to prove.
@rajk999 saidThe sons of Cane and Ishmael have been at war with the sons of Able and Isaac for millennia.
You are right about that. There are many theories and discussions on these things will never be conclusive. The big BUT is that the prophets speak of these as end time events, most are centered around the Jews returning to Palestine and what happens thereafter.
As we speak now people who are caught up with this issue are going overboard about the current state of fighting in Palestine, and making all kinds of predictions. Personally I avoid that kind of drama.
The problem I see is two-fold, obviously three (being an atheist and all, but that’s besides the theological point):
- the scriptures aren’t clear as to why Christ won’t return until the Abrahmic convenant is re-instated (or whatever else could be relevant as to borders and the Hewbrews inhabiting a certain area)
- under David and Solomon the Abrahamic convention came to fruitition. And biblically, the inhabitants screwed it for themselves. So the end times would be free to transpire anytime after 950 BC (give or take).
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- the scriptures aren’t clear as to why Christ won’t return until the Abrahmic convenant is re-instated (or whatever else could be relevant as to borders and the Hewbrews inhabiting a certain area)
- under David and Solomon the Abrahamic convention came to fruitition. And biblically, the inhabitants screwed it for themselves. So the end times would be free to transpire anytime after 950 BC (give or take).
The Abrahamic covenant does include some physical land matters. But it crucially includes a blessing of receiving Christ as the divine life giving Spirit into the human spirit. That is part of the blessing to come upon the nations - to be saved in Christ and indwelt with by Christ in His pneumatic form.
"Christ has redeemed us out of the curse of the law, having become a curse on our behalf . . . In order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus,
that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith," (See Gal. 3:13,14)
The Abrahamic covenant contains this critical factor to the non-Israelites, the Gentiles - to be saved from the curse of God's condemning law and to receive Jesus Christ as the Holy Spirit within by precious faith.
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I am still thinking on the Zionist portion of your question. I think the culmination of God's promises in a physical sense to Israel conclude after rather than before the coming of their Messiah (the second coming).
His descent over the Holy Land at the end of the age is during a time of Israel's heightened sense of threat, obliteration, inescapable defeat and annihilation at the hands of their enemies. This is seen in Matthew 24.
"Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him who reads understand),
Then let those in Judea flee to the mountains; " (vs.15,16)
Looks like near genocide or national obliteration to me rather than conquest.
"But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days. And pray that your flight may not be in winter, nor on a Sabbath. For at that time there will be great tribulation, such as has not occurred from the beginning of the world until now, nor shall by any means ever occur.
And unless those days had been cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen, those days will be cut short." (vs.20-22)
The mention of the Sabbath indicates that the Jews of Israel are the main audience He is speaking to. Of course that would include the disciples of Jesus then as they were Jews.
Right now I think full possession of the land promised them occurs after Christ's second coming rather than before. Just before the extreme opposite to their well being is the case.