13 Oct 07
2 edits
Originally posted by epiphinehasPoor, poor pathetic unenlightened chap. I really feel sorry for you epi. Perhaps some day you will join the elite enlightened folk? There is still room for you in the ivory tower you know. After all, it is largely an empty vessel in there.
How passive aggressive of you; talking about me as if I'm not right here. 🙂
13 Oct 07
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneAt what point do you believe that one is granted salvation? Think of one---
At what point do you believe that one is granted salvation?
What do you believe that Jesus was saying in John 8:32-35?
We are ALL granted salvation , but not all accept it is a gift from God that cannot be earned or bartered for. Once someone realises (via the spirit) who jesus is and trusts that it is via his power we are saved then they have received christ. It's a matter of accepting a gift and realising he died for you freely. Only the individual knows for sure when they have reached that point. The fact that some might play act at salvation doesn't mean salvation by faith is false any more than the fact that many democracies behave dictatorially means that democracy is a dumb idea , because it is not.
14 Oct 07
Originally posted by knightmeisterWhat happens to those who accept the gift and later move away from Christ?
At what point do you believe that one is granted salvation? Think of one---
We are ALL granted salvation , but not all accept it is a gift from God that cannot be earned or bartered for. Once someone realises (via the spirit) who jesus is and trusts that it is via his power we are saved then they have received christ. It's a matter of accepting a g ...[text shortened]... many democracies behave dictatorially means that democracy is a dumb idea , because it is not.
Can one be saved and continue to sin? If so, would this be true of say a serial killer?
How about responding to "What do you believe that Jesus was saying in John 8:32-35?"?
14 Oct 07
Originally posted by whodeyI am referring to the leaders and no... not all are corrupt.
So are you saying that all those associated with the major denominations are corrupt? Does this include all those within the congregation and those within leadership? That is quite a judgement and it includes many people you have no knowledge of. I will not deny that corruption occurs and if it did'nt it would prove the Bible to be in error because it the ...[text shortened]... t attitude of Christ by saying that the church has nothing to offer me so I am through with it?
But the good ones are part of a corrupt organisation.
I am not speaking of the congregation, they are just like sheep following the leader no matter what. I am not saying that anyone one of them will loose their salvation. Its just that I rather not be part of the stupidity that goes on in some of these churches. I think I am capable of doing some of what Christ commanded us to do on my own, without have to frustrate myself by going to church and deal with the foolishness.
14 Oct 07
Originally posted by Rajk999It sounds like you don't need the body of Christ to help you in any way or for any reason. Congradulations on such self sufficientcy. I once thought this as well but I later found I had decieved myself. I, in fact, need other believers to help me in my walk. It took some humbling expereinces to find this out the hard way. In Hebrews it warns us not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together. In fact, there are stength in numbers. Case in point is Matthew 18:19.
I think I am capable of doing some of what Christ commanded us to do on my own, without have to frustrate myself by going to church and deal with the foolishness.[/b]
"Again I say to you, that if two of you will agree on earth as touching any thing that they will ask, it will be done for them of my Father which is in heaven."
Why do you think he emphasized two or more?
Also consider Pauls admonishment.
1 Corinthians 12:12 "For as the body is one, and has many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into the body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many........If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing where were the smelling?......And the eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of you, nor again the head to the feet I have no need of you."
I would just like to point out that Christ commanded us to be baptized and take communion etc, etc. Do you bapitize yourself and/or take communion by yourself? Also what of the other believers? Do they not have needs that you might be able to meet? Would Christ ignore them as you are doing?
14 Oct 07
Originally posted by snowinscotland...for example the scripture says 'two', and you change it to 'two or more'. -SNOW----------------
...and are you still decieving (sic) yourself?
...for example the scripture says 'two', and you change it to 'two or more'.
What utter pedantry! His mistake does not change the spirit of the verse nor does it really change anything. Do you really think Christ would think "oh no there's three of them , that's a problem..., if only there were two...."
Nonsense !! You are deceiving YOURSELF if you actually think you have made a point at all here.
The words at , he's ,straws, clutching come to mind.
14 Oct 07
Originally posted by knightmeisterThe first point remains; two does not become 'two or more' even if he does want to make a point;
...for example the scripture says 'two', and you change it to 'two or more'. -SNOW----------------
What utter pedantry! His mistake does not change the spirit of the verse nor does it really change anything. Do you really think Christ would think "oh no there's three of them , that's a problem..., if only there were two...."
Nonsense !! You are d ...[text shortened]... ve made a point at all here.
The words at , he's ,straws, clutching come to mind.
the second deeper meaning remains too....
15 Oct 07
Originally posted by knightmeisterLOL. Yes, as a matter of fact that happened to me the other day. There were three of us praying and Christ appeared and told us we were deluding ourselves if we thought three of us praying would get a response. He just glibly told us to get back to him when there are only two left in the room.
...for example the scripture says 'two', and you change it to 'two or more'. -SNOW----------------
What utter pedantry! His mistake does not change the spirit of the verse nor does it really change anything. Do you really think Christ would think "oh no there's three of them , that's a problem..., if only there were two...."
Nonsense !! You are d ...[text shortened]... ve made a point at all here.
The words at , he's ,straws, clutching come to mind.
15 Oct 07
Originally posted by ThinkOfOnenone of us are perfect...we strive not to sin but always fall short!!!
[b]"You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free" (John 8:32).
From what will the truth make you free?
"They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (Jo ...[text shortened]... s be? How can so many overlook the words of Jesus, here and in several other places?
16 Oct 07
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneFrom what will the truth make you free?
"You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free" (John 8:32).
From what will the truth make you free?
"They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John ...[text shortened]... s be? How can so many overlook the words of Jesus, here and in several other places?
Slavery.
When the man and the woman decided to opt out of God's system and enter into the system of 'good and evil,' they immediately set upon a religious fix to their problem (by means of clothing). Although the clothing remains (as a social orientation), God disabused them of the notion that they would be able to either figure out a solution or work the same. He promised them a messiah would be given to them through her. Looking forward to that promise, they were saved and brought out of the slave market of sin. Did they ever sin again? Of course.
God's salvation is not limited to a mere application of right action, but goes deeper, to right thought. As long as one remains outside of God's solution, the same is a slave to worldly concepts. The slave will orient himself to one slavish system of thought after another, or stubbornly adhere to one religion over all others. It matters not whether he is loyal to many or devoted to one, the results remain the same: he is a slave.
The Lord Jesus Christ makes the only legitimate offer of freedom that man has ever heard:
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
16 Oct 07
Originally posted by FreakyKBHWhy "Of course" as a response to "Did they ever sin again?"?
[b]From what will the truth make you free?
Slavery.
When the man and the woman decided to opt out of God's system and enter into the system of 'good and evil,' they immediately set upon a religious fix to their problem (by means of clothing). Although the clothing remains (as a social orientation), God disabused them of the notion that they would ...[text shortened]... rn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.[/i][/b]
Seems to me that BOTH "right action" and "right thought" would be compromised.