The Word of God

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"Why do people not believe the word of God is the word of God?"

Because if they acknowledge the existence of God then that would make them accountable to Him.

The knowledge of the existence of God is hard wired into every fiber of our being. Denial is natural due to sin. Admission of sin is too difficult for some. Pride is the foundation upon w ...[text shortened]... I know you know that God is your creator. You know you were created. Quit believing the lie.[/b]

Not believing in the biblical description of God doesn not necessarily make a person anymore or any less moral/ethical. I would argue that I am not anymore sinful than the average Christian. I'd remind you that history shows us that terrible things have been done by Christians in the name of Christianity. I'm good to my family and friends. I make a meaningful contribution to society. I live a good life. At the same time, I recognize that I have short comings. I am not perfect by any means. My compulsion to screw with the people on this site is some indication of that.

I'm accountable to myself, my family and my fellow man. God is an unknown entity and may or may not have an impact on my life.

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
Not believing in the biblical description of God doesn not necessarily make a person anymore or any less moral/ethical. I would argue that I am not anymore sinful than the average Christian. I'd remind you that history shows us that terrible things have been done by Christians in the name of Christianity. I'm good to my family and friends. I make ...[text shortened]... ly and my fellow man. God is an unknown entity and may or may not have an impact on my life.

Islam, which has a far more majestic view of Allah than Christianity has of Jehovah (or Yahweh), claims that the Bible is flawed.

Originally posted by Wulebgr
Islam, which has a far more majestic view of Allah than Christianity has of Jehovah (or Yahweh), claims that the Bible is flawed.

Islam is not the True Religion, so you don't have to or required to believe it nor should you believe it as some of it is outright false, There is only One God.

Originally posted by Wulebgr
Islam, which has a far more majestic view of Allah than Christianity has of Jehovah (or Yahweh), claims that the Bible is flawed.

when one reads the Koran, one cannot get a proper perception of the character of God, for Muslims have put such an emphasis on his ' majesty', that he is incomprehensible. The consequences of this is that when one reads the Koran, the God of the Koran is almost without personality, and is, in my opinion, rather a cold, distant and unknowable God. This is in stark contrast to the biblical God, whose personality is fully discernible by those willing to take the time.

Actually the Koran states that the word of God, cannot be changed. when i have challenged Mulsims of this topic, they have stated that it is with reference to the Koran only,. When it is pointed out to them that the Koran mentions the Torat (the pentatuech), the Zeboor (the Pslams) and the Injil (the gopsels) as being the word of God, they have no argument.

Originally posted by daniel58
Islam is not the True Religion, so you don't have to or required to believe it nor should you believe it as some of it is outright false, There is only One God.

Can you give us some examples of what passages are "outright false" in the Koran? Just curious as to how you've developed this idea.

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
Can you give us some examples of what passages are "outright false" in the Koran? Just curious as to how you've developed this idea.

This is as far as I got (but I only got about half-way through the 2nd chapter)

"All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.

They desire to deceive Allah and those who believe, and they deceive only themselves and they do not perceive.
There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they lied.

Allah shall pay them back their mockery, and He leaves them alone in their inordinacy, blindly wandering on.

Or like abundant rain from the cloud in which is utter darkness and thunder and lightning; they put their fingers into their ears because of the thunder peal, for fear of death, and Allah encompasses the unbelievers.
The lightning almost takes away their sight; whenever it shines on them they walk in it, and when it becomes dark to them they stand still; and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have taken away their hearing and their sight; surely Allah has power over all things.

Who made the earth a resting place for you and the heaven a canopy and (Who) sends down rain from the cloud then brings forth with it subsistence for you of the fruits; therefore do not set up rivals to Allah while you know.

Surely Allah is not ashamed to set forth any parable-- (that of) a gnat or any thing above that; then as for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord, and as for those who disbelieve, they say: What is it that Allah means by this parable: He causes many to err by it and many He leads aright by it! but He does not cause to err by it (any) except the transgressors,

Who break the covenant of Allah after its confirmation and cut asunder what Allah has ordered to be joined, and make mischief in the land; these it is that are the losers.
How do you deny Allah and you were dead and He gave you life? Again He will cause you to die and again bring you to life, then you shall be brought back to

And He taught Adam all the names, then presented them to the angels; then He said: Tell me the names of those if you are right.

But the Shaitan made them both fall from it, and caused them to depart from that (state) in which they were; and We said: Get forth, some of you being the enemies of others, and there is for you in the earth an abode and a provision for a time.

And when We gave Musa the Book and the distinction that you might walk aright.

And when you said: O Musa! we cannot bear with one food, therefore pray Lord on our behalf to bring forth for us out of what the earth grows, of its herbs and its cucumbers and its garlic and its lentils and its onions. He said: Will you exchange that which is better for that which is worse? Enter a city, so you will have what you ask for. And abasement and humiliation were brought down upon them, and they became deserving of Allah's wrath; this was so because they disbelieved in the communications of Allah and killed the prophets unjustly; this was so because they disobeyed and exceeded the limits.
Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
And when We took a promise from you and lifted the mountain over you: Take hold of the law (Tavrat) We have given you with firmness and bear in mind what is in it, so that you may guard (against evil).
Then you turned back after that; so were it not for the grace of Allah and His mercy on you, you would certainly have been among the losers.
And certainly you have known those among you who exceeded the limits of the Sabbath, so We said to them: Be (as) apes, despised and hated.

Musa said: He says, Surely she is a cow not made submissive that she should plough the land, nor does she irrigate the tilth; sound, without a blemish in her. They said: Now you have brought the truth; so they sacrificed her, though they had not the mind to do (it).
And when you killed a man, then you disagreed with respect to that, and Allah was to bring forth that which you were going to hide.
So We said: Strike the (dead body) with part of the (Sacrificed cow), thus Allah brings the dead to life, and He shows you His signs so that you may understand.
Then your hearts hardened after that, so that they were like rocks, rather worse in hardness; and surely there are some rocks from which streams burst forth, and surely there are some of them which split asunder so water issues out of them, and surely there are some of them which fall down for fear of Allah, and Allah is not at all heedless of what you do.
Do you then hope that they would believe in you, and a party from among them indeed used to hear the Word of Allah, then altered it after they had understood it, and they know (this).
And when they meet those who believe they say: We believe, and when they are alone one with another they say: Do you talk to them of what Allah has disclosed to you that they may contend with you by this before your Lord? Do you not then understand?

Do they not know that Allah knows what they keep secret and what they make known?"

Originally posted by daniel58
This is as far as I got (but I only got about half-way through the 2nd chapter)

"All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.

They desire to deceive Allah and those who believe, and they deceive only themselves and they do not perceive.
There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisem ...[text shortened]... stand?

Do they not know that Allah knows what they keep secret and what they make known?"

Can you clarify what your objection is?

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
Can you clarify what your objection is?

1. I don't believe in calling God Allah
2. "the Lord of the Worlds"? What "Worlds"?
3. "And He taught Adam all the names, then presented them to the angels; then He said: Tell me the names of those if you are right", Wrong again God let Adam name them, He didn't "present them to the angels". and didn't say "Tell me the names of those if you are right" those two don't even make any sense.
4. But the Shaitan (I guess it means the serpent or the devil) made them both fall from it, and caused them to depart from that (state) in which they were; and We said: Get forth, some of you being the enemies of others" The devil TEMPTED Adam and Eve, they fell for it and were cast out of the Garden of Eden, God didn't say that, He punished Adam by making him work for his food and letting weeds and thorns grow, Eve by pain in child birth and the serpent by taking away his legs...

I don't feel like interpreting it all for you, there's no reason why you can't do it for yourself and find the obvious mistakes for yourself as I could go through the whole thing but it would take a long time

Originally posted by daniel58
3. "And He taught Adam all the names, then presented them to the angels; then He said: Tell me the names of those if you are right", Wrong again God let Adam name them, He didn't "present them to the angels".

Thanks. You've made my point.

You disbelieve the Qur'an because it differs from the Bible, yet you given have no credible reason for choosing one over the other (aside from the unacknowledged coincidence that you were born in a country that is predominantly Christian, even if only nominally so).

Originally posted by Wulebgr
Thanks. You've made my point.

You disbelieve the Qur'an because it differs from the Bible, yet you given have no credible reason for choosing one over the other (aside from the unacknowledged coincidence that you were born in a country that is predominantly Christian, even if only nominally so).

I concur with this assessment.

Originally posted by Wulebgr
Thanks. You've made my point.

You disbelieve the Qur'an because it differs from the Bible, yet you given have no credible reason for choosing one over the other (aside from the unacknowledged coincidence that you were born in a country that is predominantly Christian, even if only nominally so).

No I disbelieve it because it is false, because I believe it is false even though you may believe otherwise.

Originally posted by daniel58
No I disbelieve it because it is false, because I believe it is false even though you may believe otherwise.

Are you familiar with the word tautology?

Originally posted by rwingett
Homo sapiens have been around for about 200,000 years. The earliest intentional burials date to around 80,000 to 100,000 years ago. This is the earliest evidence we have for "religious" sentiment among human beings. It could very well be the case, then, that human beings have been implicit atheists for one half of their history. It seems probable that relig ...[text shortened]... r them, it seems inevitable that religious beliefs would arise among pre-scientific cultures.

"Homo sapiens have been around for about 200,000 years."

I don't trust the science. Too much room for error.

"It is clear that humans are NOT hardwired to believe in god."

Yes they are. What is culturally transmitted are the lies which essentially bury the soul and spirit in darkness so that God is unrecognisable.

When one denies the existence of God it is only because they don't want to be accountable to Him. So a man will search for anything to block out what he innately knows is true.

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
Not believing in the biblical description of God doesn not necessarily make a person anymore or any less moral/ethical. I would argue that I am not anymore sinful than the average Christian. I'd remind you that history shows us that terrible things have been done by Christians in the name of Christianity. I'm good to my family and friends. I make ...[text shortened]... ly and my fellow man. God is an unknown entity and may or may not have an impact on my life.

Wow!

I can really appreciate this post. I sense genuine sincerity.

"I would argue that I am not anymore sinful than the average Christian."

And you would be right.

"I'd remind you that history shows us that terrible things have been done by Christians in the name of Christianity."

No doubt some Christians have done some very bad things, but I would argue that probably 80% of the people out there that call themselves Christians really aren't Christians at all.

If we could know the heart of every person who ever lived, then we would be able to pass judgement, but we can't.

As a Christian I can't imagine myself causing harm to anyone simply because they don't believe what I do.

It was the hypocrite Pharisees that brought Jesus before Pilot to be crucified.

The world is full of Pharisees.

Originally posted by Wulebgr
Are you familiar with the word tautology?

Isn't that when something is really tight? 😵