03 Aug 06
Originally posted by ErwinIn the same way men who hear the gospel of the Christ will act as though they were never taught otherwise. But that doesn't change the fact that GOD will still judge them as though they knew the truth, because they did. That room where the baby was raised is a Labratory. The raiser of the baby is the aversary, i.e. Satan. The baby is the ignorance of men towards the Holy Spirit. Meaphorically speaking of course.
Thanks for your reply googlefudge.
By the way yes I am a Christian, a Protestant not a Catholic though. Growing, up my dearly departed mother took us along to her Baptist Church, and I also attended a Christian school from grade 5-12.
Now I als o have a question for those who believe in evolution.
Ever since I read a statement in one of my since books a ...[text shortened]... ll the child was say 5, he will still act like an infent because it was never tought otherwise.
04 Aug 06
To cuntineu my argument.
Now taking all this into account, how on God's green earth would it have been posible for "primative man" to learn to speek, and eventualy reed and write, if it had no one to teach it how to do all this, like you would have to do with a child today?
Also if you look at most mammals that exsist today, then you would see that the young of these animals are tought by their parents to do Everything that they did in order to survive. This hapens from generation to generation etc. etc. etc. In other words even primates today act basically exatly like there great, great grand father and grand mother "monkeys" would have.
Now you might argue that some primates can be tought to huse sign languege etc. But the key word here is still that they have to be Tought by humens to do this!
This is not a behaviour that they would "pick up" as it where somewhere in the wild, because it is not natural to them.
Therefore, I think if "primative man" had any hope at all of Learning how to speek, in the modern, human sense of the word then some out side "force", "being", or whatever you want to call it, like God for instance, would have had to teach them, like parents still teach their children today.
If not, I think that we would still be walking around comunicating like primates do today by sounds, grunts and body language etc.
Nough sead I think. 🙂
04 Aug 06
Originally posted by ErwinAn interesting rework of the old chicken and egg problem.
To cuntineu my argument.
Now taking all this into account, how on God's green earth would it have been posible for "primative man" to learn to speek, and eventualy reed and write, if it had no one to teach it how to do all this, like you would have to do with a child today?
Also if you look at most mammals that exsist today, then you would see that the youn ...[text shortened]... imates do today by sounds, grunts and body language etc.
Nough sead I think. 🙂
Just a quick sidebar before I continue, Erwin, I'm not sure if you actually have learned to write, but let's move on ...
Imagine you're in a foreign country, where no one speaks your language. You don't understand anything anyone says or writes. For some reason, you have no access to anyone that speaks your own language.
You are completely isolated.
What do you do?
How do you communicate?
How can you find food or find someone who can help you to get home?
These foreigners are humans are they not? So, they share a fair bit of basic physical and mental structures with you. Body language for example, is shared. You point to your stomach, make a gesture of putting food in your mouth - they'll quickly figure out you're hungry.
Continuing to do this, you might even pick up some of the local words and be able to build up your communication.
In no time (well it might take a while, but you get the idea) you're fast friends with your foreigners.
Now set this back a million years or so and of course the foreigners have no language for you to learn.
But you both have a fine mind, and you both share basic features - including body language.
Why not invent some grunts - we'll call them words - to help with communicating ...
And so it goes ...
04 Aug 06
Originally posted by royaltystatementI never thought of it that way before, good point though I think. 🙂
In the same way men who hear the gospel of the Christ will act as though they were never taught otherwise. But that doesn't change the fact that GOD will still judge them as though they knew the truth, because they did. That room where the baby was raised is a Labratory. The raiser of the baby is the aversary, i.e. Satan. The baby is the ignorance of men towards the Holy Spirit. Meaphorically speaking of course.
If you reed my last post though, then you will see that I was only half way done with it.
The point I was trying to make though conserns evolution. The statement I was refering to from my since book was also about evolution, in fact there was an entire section if I recall correctly, that was dedicated to comparing evolution to the consept of creation (which I believe in).
🙂
04 Aug 06
Originally posted by ErwinNothing to do with evolution whatsoever. Mind you, you should go and read some of the Scottish philosopher, David Hume's, work.
Thanks for your reply googlefudge.
By the way yes I am a Christian, a Protestant not a Catholic though. Growing, up my dearly departed mother took us along to her Baptist Church, and I also attended a Christian school from grade 5-12.
Now I als o have a question for those who believe in evolution.
Ever since I read a statement in one of my since books a ...[text shortened]... ll the child was say 5, he will still act like an infent because it was never tought otherwise.
04 Aug 06
Originally posted by ErwinDear me. It makes you wonder if you ever were "tought" (taught) how to read or write properly.
To cuntineu my argument.
Now taking all this into account, how on God's green earth would it have been posible for "primative man" to learn to speek, and eventualy reed and write, if it had no one to teach it how to do all this, like you would have to do with a child today?
Also if you look at most mammals that exsist today, then you would see that the youn ...[text shortened]... imates do today by sounds, grunts and body language etc.
Nough sead I think. 🙂
Go read some Shakespeare. In its original form. See how much you understand. And that's in only a couple of hundred years. Communication is phenomonally useful, hence it has evolved in numerous species, as diverse as humans and bees, plants and ants. Not all these communication forms are as complex as human language, but even being able to communicate in any way is better than none at all. Let's look, as an alegory, at a growing baby. When a baby is born is has a very limited ability to communicate, it can pretty much cry and smile, and that's about it. As it grows it is able to control its facial features better, and starts to produce noises. These noises are, at first very crude attempts to express feelings, but they are better than nothing. As the child gets progressively older it's ability to communicate (generally) increases. In terms of the evolution of language pretty much the same thing happened, except over generations. Progressive generations added or substracted pieces of language to the "language pool" making it better and better at facilitating explanations. For example, in science new words are coined all the time.
The fact that there is language, that has to be learned does not detract from the fact that an organism within its natural conditions will learn to communicate with other animals.
04 Aug 06
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Originally posted by scottishinnzWhen in response with fortune and men's eyes
Dear me. It makes you wonder if you ever were "tought" (taught) how to read or write properly.
Go read some Shakespeare. In its original form. See how much you understand. And that's in only a couple of hundred years. Communication is phenomonally useful, hence it has evolved in numerous species, as diverse as humans and bees, plants and ants. anism within its natural conditions will learn to communicate with other animals.
I alone beweep my outcast state
And trouble deaf Heaven with my bootless cries
And look on myself and curse my fate
Wishing me like one more rich in hope,
Featured like him, like him with friends possessed
Disiring this man's art and that man's scope
With what I most enjoy contended lest
Yet in these thoughts myself almost despising
Happily I think on thee and then my state.
Like to the lark at break of day arising,
From sullen Earth, sing hyms at Heaven's gate.
For thy sweet love remembered such wealth brings,
That then I scorn to change my state with kings.
-William Shakespere
04 Aug 06
1 edit
Originally posted by royaltystatementIn those days it was common to believe in God. Einstein also believed in God. My boss believes in God. Does that automatically mean that they are right and I and others (some excepetionally clever people) wrong?
Even William Shakespere spoke of Heaven, varifiying that there is a GOD, over 100 years ago.
04 Aug 06
Originally posted by scottishinnzThat is their belief you have yours. How clever you are has nothing to do with it. If you tell a 5-year-old about GOD he can accept it, the same goes for science. The difference is, as a man, you must accept what you know in your heart to be true. That is your destiny, to believe what you know is true. You boss believes in God because he knows that in his heart it is true. He doesn't believe in GOD because he is or isn't clever. He feels the truth in his heart. You too must feel the truth in your heart and move towards it. Weither your truth is that there is a GOD or that there isn't a GOD. You never really know the truth until you die. The truth I hold however, will protect me even in death.
In those days it was common to believe in God. Einstein also believed in God. My boss believes in God. Does that automatically mean that they are right and I and others (some excepetionally clever people) wrong?
04 Aug 06
Originally posted by royaltystatementBe careful RS, you're starting to make sense and sound reasonable ...
That is their belief you have yours. How clever you are has nothing to do with it. If you tell a 5-year-old about GOD he can accept it, the same goes for science. The difference is, as a man, you must accept what you know in your heart to be true. That is your destiny, to believe what you know is true. You boss believes in God because he knows that ...[text shortened]... really know the truth until you die. The truth I hold however, will protect me even in death.
04 Aug 06
Originally posted by scottishinnzI am realy sory for my bad English spelling and gramer. Believe it or not I did actualy learn to reed and to write, it is just that English is not my first language I grew up in an Afrikaans speaking family, and I atended a Christian school where all the subjects where presented in English, except for Afrikaans of course, but the teachers were all Afrikaans. Most of the subjects in the Christian school that I atended are in English because the study materials come from America. I believe they call it the ACE cericulam.
Dear me. It makes you wonder if you ever were "tought" (taught) how to read or write properly.
Go read some Shakespeare. In its original form. See how much you understand. And that's in only a couple of hundred years. Communication is phenomonally useful, hence it has evolved in numerous species, as diverse as humans and bees, plants and ants. ...[text shortened]... anism within its natural conditions will learn to communicate with other animals.
Ps. I know my English spelling and gramer are bad, but spelling was never one of my strong points in school. Sory! 😳
05 Aug 06
Originally posted by scottishinnzYes I know that as a baby grows and gets older that its' ability to communicate increases, everyone knows this especially people with children. But then how would this baby learn to talk if his/her parents dont teach him/her to do so.
Dear me. It makes you wonder if you ever were "tought" (taught) how to read or write properly.
Go read some Shakespeare. In its original form. See how much you understand. And that's in only a couple of hundred years. Communication is phenomonally useful, hence it has evolved in numerous species, as diverse as humans and bees, plants and ants. ...[text shortened]... anism within its natural conditions will learn to communicate with other animals.
It is commen knowledge that you have to teach babies to do this, by for exaple repeeting words like mommy, dady etc. to them untill they can do it themselves.
Also you need to teach children to reed and write, otherwise they will not know how to do it.
I know my mother and my first grade teacher had to help me with that, along with all my other class mates and millions of other South African children etc.
So what I am trying to say is that if you do not stimulate a child's brain from an early age, by talking to them, showing them things, singing to them even etc, then they will strugle with their language, reeding and writing skills.