"Thoughtcrimes"

@indonesia-phil said
I agree with your first two paragraphs, so can't really add very much, except to say that I think it's a pity that this thread has immediately been hijacked by the 'Jesus said' brigade.

Well this is the Spirituality forum rather than the debates forum....

@yo-its-me said
Well this is the Spirituality forum rather than the debates forum....

So do you think that there's nothing more to spirituality that what 'Jesus said'?

To add a bit of substance to my first post, our thoughts must remain our own, and we can only judge ourselves in this regard. Of course at times we share our thoughts with others, at which point some kind of judgement becomes applicable, but only upon our actions can we be judged by our own species in general.

Here's a case in point. At a certain stage in my move to Indonesia, the whole of my plans (and financial investment) were seriously threatened by a certain Indonesian. I was told that for US$150 he could be made to disappear permanently, never to be seen again and no questions asked....There was a moment when I thought 'That might not be such a bad idea.' It was only a moment, and I found other ways of dealing with him, which were much more expensive, but it kept my conscience clear. Not guilty, your Honour...

@indonesia-phil said
So do you think that there's nothing more to spirituality that what 'Jesus said'?

To add a bit of substance to my first post, our thoughts must remain our own, and we can only judge ourselves in this regard. Of course at times we share our thoughts with others, at which point some kind of judgement becomes applicable, but only upon our actions can we be judged by o ...[text shortened]... ith him, which were much more expensive, but it kept my conscience clear. Not guilty, your Honour...

If your spiritual basis is in what Jesus has said then you would have to quote Him, I think.
I guess another way of looking at things would be to ask- how do you know what's right or wrong? Or where dose your clear conscience sit?

@divegeester said
You’ve fudged point one.

Jesus didn’t speak of “acknowledging that she is beautiful and sexy” he talked about lusting after her.

But I see what you did there.

The lusting started with #2. He lusted but was unable to turn that lust into reality. His intention was what mattered. He wanted to. According to Jesus, he is as bad as man #3.

@suzianne said
You meant immorality, I'm sure of it.

A little immortality on the brain, I suppose.

Yes. Immorality. Predictive text on my phone is the culprit.

@yo-its-me said
Maybe a crime is only a crime if there is a victim.
But a sin is something else, something that doesn't necessitate a victim?

"Sin" is a transgression of divine will. I suppose the divine being is seen as being a victim of the transgression.

@rajk999 said
The lusting started with #2. He lusted but was unable to turn that lust into reality. His intention was what mattered. He wanted to. According to Jesus, he is as bad as man #3.

As bad? There must be different levels or degrees of sin.

@fmf said
"Sin" is a transgression of divine will. I suppose the divine being is seen as being a victim of the transgression.

My understanding is sin separates us from God because He is perfect. And He wants to be connected to us, that was the point of creating us. So, on that I guess he is loosing out because of our sin. Victim seems a bit of a strong definition though.

@yo-its-me said
As bad? There must be different levels or degrees of sin.

Of course there are. Im surprised at your comment.

@rajk999 said
It is clear from all descriptions of judgment day that it is what one actually does, and the motives for their action, not what they are thinking, is the criteria used in judgment. God knows how to discern these things.

I understand this; however, the verse in question equates thoughts with "already having committed adultery" and committing adultery is surely an action.

@yo-its-me said
My understanding is sin separates us from God because He is perfect. And He wants to be connected to us, that was the point of creating us. So, on that I guess he is loosing out because of our sin. Victim seems a bit of a strong definition though.

This could almost be part of a defence of an abusive parent.

@fmf said
This could almost be part of a defence of an abusive parent.

How so?

@rajk999 said
Of course there are. Im surprised at your comment.

I'm commenting on your 'as bad' comment.

@yo-its-me said
Perhaps to really discuss this there needs to be a separation between what is a thought crime, what is an immoral thought and what is a sinful thought.

So, you think there are "immoral thoughts"? If you think there is a separation between an immoral thought and a "sinful" thought, perhaps you should state what it is.

@yo-its-me said
How so?

Abuse or even torture of children for being disappointing and less than perfect.