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06 Nov 15
2 edits
Originally posted by FreakyKBH
The fact remains, planes do take the shortest path possible, but that path only makes sense when seen on a flat earth model.
The fact remains, planes do take the shortest path possible
No they don't.
I have relatives that recently took a flight from a London Airport to Cagliari [Sardinia Italy] and
the flight wasn't even close to being the shortest route.
First the flight went the long way around London, which probably put something like 50~60
miles extra on the journey.
Then the flight wiggled across France to go around major cities as it followed various
flight corridors and then instead of flying directly towards Cagliari in the south of the
island the flight headed for the north of the island, headed inland and then flew down the centre
of the island to descend between the mountains either side.
And it took a different wiggly route going back north as it took the north bound flight corridors.
Again going the long way around London.
My recent journey to Iceland was similar.
My flight didn't go direct, on the way out we flew up the middle of England and then departed over
northern Scotland so that we spent as little time over water as possible.
And on my flight back we went a different route coming in over Ireland and then crossing
Ireland and the Irish sea to head in towards London.
The flight I took from Heathrow to LAX also was not anything close to a shortest distance.
The two flights [to and from] had significant deviations north and south from each other as heading
out from London we deviated to avoid the jet stream [~13 hr flight] and on the way back we went
with it [~11 hr flight].
The shortest route is a Great Circle as this already linked site makes clear...
http://www.aircalculator.com/flightplan.php?from=LHR+-+London+Heathrow+Airport&to=LAX#about_this_route
About this route:
A direct, nonstop flight between London Heathrow Airport (LHR), London, England, United Kingdom and Los Angeles International Airport (LAX), Los Angeles, California, United States would travel a Great Circle distance of 5,443 miles (or 8,759 kilometers).
A Great Circle is the shortest distance between 2 points on a sphere. Because most world maps are flat (but the Earth is round), the route of the shortest distance between 2 points on the Earth will often appear curved when viewed on a flat map, especially for long distances. If you were to simply draw a straight line on a flat map and measure a very long distance, it would likely be much further than if you were to lay a string between those two points on a globe. Because of the large distance between London Heathrow Airport and Los Angeles International Airport, the route shown on this map most likely appears curved because of this reason.
Try it at home! Get a globe and tightly lay a string between London Heathrow Airport and Los Angeles International Airport. You'll see that it will travel the same route of the red line on this map!
But the plane I actually flew on did not take this route.
In fact I am looking at Flight Radar 24 right now and looking at a BA flight from LHR to LAX that is nearing it's
destination and I can see that the route it took deviated significantly north from the Great circle shortest route.
It went up through the UK and then out over Iceland, then continued tracking farther North over Greenland,
then down through Nunavut [North of the Hudson bay] and the Northwest Territories, Then down through
Alberta and Washington, and is currently Heading through Washington towards Nevada and California.
This actual route is significantly north [and is not strait by any definition] of the Great Circle shortest route as
shown in the website linked above.
Planes do not take the shortest path possible, because sometimes that route is neither the safest, nor
the fastest [if it means flying into 100+ mph winds in the jet stream] and because our air traffic system
restricts aircraft to air corridors for simplicity.
but that path only makes sense when seen on a flat earth model.
No, it makes no sense on a flat Earth model, and all the sense in the world on a Globe.
If you want proof that planes do not fly strait lines or shortest routes go look at flight radar 24 and
watch some planes [click on them to see their actual tracks] and see the routes they take.
http://www.flightradar24.com/
You can add filters to restrict the view to planes to/from particular airports or particular airlines.
I'm currently tracking BAW269 LHR to LAX A380-841 G-XLEC
http://www.flightradar24.com/BAW269/7e49897
But it will probably have landed by the time you 'read' this.
And it's the last flight to LAX from LHR of the day.
A Virgin flight from LAX to LHR has just taken off, due to arrive lunchtime tomorrow.
http://www.flightradar24.com/VIR8E/7e6b23d
EDIT: I can currently see an Air New Zealand flight from LAX to LHR that has started on a very different
route from the flights from LHR to LAX, this flight has headed out across Utah and Wyoming instead of
back up through Nevada, Oregon, and Washington. The flight back is keeping farther south to take advantage
of the jet stream http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/250hPa/orthographic=-20.18,51.92,761
http://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ2/7e692d4
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06 Nov 15
Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]Did I present anything as proof?
Yes, you did.
When you offered this as evidence of your point, that is the same as offering proof.
That escaped you?
I'm merely showing a near trans-south-pole route.
Perhaps a mere amount of research will help clarify exactly how many flights actually take the southern route in comparison to that taken ...[text shortened]... ake the same paths and superimpose them on a flat earth and see how "straight" the path becomes.[/b]
I'm merely showing a near trans-south-pole route.
Perhaps a mere amount of research will help clarify exactly how many flights actually take the southern route in comparison to that taken over the northern center.
That's totally up to you if you want to find them, of course.
Sigh. LMGTFY
http://openflights.org/data.html
http://openflights.org/demo/openflights-routedb-2048.png
Second link is an image depicting 'all' international flight routes.
Flights tend to link places with people that have money.
So the Poorer less populated southern hemisphere with less land has fewer flights.
All of this has been exhaustively explained to you.
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06 Nov 15
The Virgin and Air New Zealand flights from LAX to LHR are not going to complete
until tomorrow morning/lunchtime.
However based on their current trajectory, and the route of flights to LHR from
airports that appear to be on route... This is my projection...
ANZ2 from LAX to LHR has flown over Nevada [Las Vegas], Utah [corner to corner], Wyoming,
and is now heading into South Dakota. My guess is that it will continue into Minnesota and
Ontario flying south of the Hudson Bay into Quebec and then head out over Newfoundland
strait across the N Atlantic [taking advantage of the jet stream] arriving over Cornwall
and heading across the south of the UK.
This route is hugely different from the route from LHR to LAX, and only makes sense on a
Globe with the jet stream [plus flight corridors].
http://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ2/7e692d4
http://www.flightradar24.com/VIR8E/7e6b23d
Originally posted by FreakyKBHAll your questions have been answered, all your points have been refuted, your insistence that they have not indicates a failure to cope with reality. The war is over and you lost.
All that science and you refuse to get in the water.
You've offered nothing to answer the questions and yet you take a position as though you've won the entire war.
Questions put to you or anyone else in the group ask very specific questions, and you've all failed to address them--- or, as is the case with googlefudge, claim one thing and then contradi ...[text shortened]... take the shortest path possible, but that path only makes sense when seen on a flat earth model.
06 Nov 15
Originally posted by DeepThoughtThe most interesting thing that goes on on this forum, for me, is the behaviour of religionists when they are called upon to process disagreement, dissent and questions they'd rather not address.
All your questions have been answered, all your points have been refuted, your insistence that they have not indicates a failure to cope with reality. The war is over and you lost.
06 Nov 15
2 edits
Originally posted by googlefudgeHilarious.
Hey, I've worked out who Freaky is...
It's this crazy person.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNVgzk3tbl0
Thinks the world looks like the UN map 😕
He says "lets prove it by looking at flights" and then any flight that doesn't suit him isn't real. And then when flights that he actually accepts as real don't fit, he say "maybe even this map isn't real".
06 Nov 15
Originally posted by googlefudgeOMG ... I went from link to link after watching that.
Hey, I've worked out who Freaky is...
It's this crazy person.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNVgzk3tbl0
Thinks the world looks like the UN map 😕
The narrators sound sane but ... so ill-educated!
Funny & sad.
06 Nov 15
Originally posted by twhiteheadHow he pronounced Mauritius and the fact that he doesn't know it
Hilarious.
He says "lets prove it by looking at flights" and then any flight that doesn't suit him isn't real. And then when flights that he actually accepts as real don't fit, he say "maybe even this map isn't real".
is a holiday destination said volumes about his depth of knowledge.
10 Nov 15
Originally posted by DeepThoughtSadly, you actually are persuaded that the challenges have been met when, in fact, not a one of you has scratched the surface.
All your questions have been answered, all your points have been refuted, your insistence that they have not indicates a failure to cope with reality. The war is over and you lost.
Originally posted by googlefudgeWatching it now.
Hey, I've worked out who Freaky is...
It's this crazy person.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNVgzk3tbl0
Thinks the world looks like the UN map 😕
I'm sure you can find even "crazier" people on YouTube.
The craziest thing, however, is your continued claims which fail to answer the challenge.
The entire support for your stance is routing based on the great circle, which presupposes travel on a sphere.
Nonetheless, even those claims are inconsistent.
You claimed latitude distance from the equator dictated the angle of trajectory, i.e., the further in latitude, the greater the angle; the closer in latitude the shallower in angle.
The two original flights examined (according to Deep Thought, I chose these flights purposely because they confuse the issue) proved your claim wrong.
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10 Nov 15
Originally posted by FreakyKBHWe don't pre-suppose that we live on a sphere [irregular oblate spheroid] we OBSERVE it.
Watching it now.
I'm sure you can find even "crazier" people on YouTube.
The craziest thing, however, is your continued claims which fail to answer the challenge.
The entire support for your stance is routing based on the great circle, which presupposes travel on a sphere.
Nonetheless, even those claims are inconsistent.
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_2159.html
One of the consequences of that is that shortest distances between two points [as the crow flies] form an arc
of a great circle.
10 Nov 15
Originally posted by googlefudgeYou observe a picture?
We don't pre-suppose that we live on a sphere [irregular oblate spheroid] we OBSERVE it.
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_2159.html
One of the consequences of that is that shortest distances between two points [as the crow flies] form an arc
of a great circle.
How about you observe the world around you, too?
Ever wonder why the horizon is always at eye level?
Ever wonder what the rate of curvature should be, were we actually on a sphere 25,000 miles around?