What happens when we die

Originally posted by dystoniac
Wow, you're a poet and don't even know it.....

Actually it's one of Nirvana's lesser-known songs.

YouTube

Originally posted by twhitehead
But you appear to be claiming in this thread that we can never 'know' anything rendering it a totally useless word surely?

I don't think I am claiming that. We can know things that can be known. And we can believe things that cannot be known. But we cannot know things that cannot be known. Death creates a situation where all the evidence you would require in order to know what happens next becomes inaccessible at the very moment you need it. I believe that death is the end. And I know that I choose NOT to speculate about it.

Originally posted by Scriabin
What you've said means only that you have an opinion, you suppose you know, etc. Here is why:

I am afraid I don't understand all that.
Maybe some examples would help.
Can I 'know' that I exist?
Can I 'know' that Pluto exists?
Can I 'know' that all people die of old age eventually?
Can I 'know' that a water molecule is made up of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom?

Originally posted by FMF
Death creates a situation where all the evidence you would require in order to know what happens next becomes inaccessible at the very moment you need it.

That is simply not true. I do not need to be the person dying in order to find out what happens next. I don't even need to observe someone dying.
If I erase my hard disk on my computer is the information it contained lost? Do I need to be the information and experience it first hand in order to know the answer?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Do you have reason to believe that the answer is unobtainable while still alive?

The answer is obtainable at the point of death at which point all witnesses become uncooperative.

I believe death is the end. If you can help me to know it to be so, as you claim to, then I am more than happy to hear what you got!

Originally posted by twhitehead
I do not need to be the person dying in order to find out what happens next.

So you're saying that the lack of evidence indicating that there is life after death means that you know that there isn't life after death? Do you have evidence that there isn't life after death?

I believe that death is the end and that this creates the wonder of life that religious people are inadvertantly forever escaping from.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I agree wholeheartedly. If, as some say, the soul lives eternally, well, there are fish and animals mentioned in Genesis which have "soul". I believe the word soul simply means "breath life".
The Bible says that God created the same life force, called “soul,” for both animals and man, but it is hard to see that in most English Bibles, because the transl ...[text shortened]... alike in that when they die, their body decays and returns to dust, and their soul dies too.

It seems like you and me are the only ones in agreement here my friend, a 'soul', being a living breathing animated being, inclusive of both humans and animals, thus when God breathed life into Adam he became a living breathing entity, not that he was given a soul, but that he became a living 'soul', or animated creature. That the 'soul', or person is clearly mortal is also indicated in scripture

(Ezekiel 18:4) . . .The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.. . .

Originally posted by FMF
The answer is obtainable at the point of death ..

Is it? I rather doubt that.

Originally posted by FMF
So you're saying that the lack of evidence indicating that there is life after death means that you know that there isn't life after death?

No. I am saying there is significant evidence that there is no life after death. I think we know enough about human consciousness to say conclusively that it cannot exist without a working brain. Your claim that it has to be 'witnessed' first hand is unfounded. You would not make a similar claim about many other things you would claim to know.
I know for a fact that a human being would not survive on Mars without a space suit. There are no witnesses that have experienced it and reported back, but that does not limit my knowledge.

Originally posted by twhitehead
No. I am saying there is significant evidence that there is no life after death. I think we know enough about human consciousness to say conclusively that it cannot exist without a working brain. Your claim that it has to be 'witnessed' first hand is unfounded. You would not make a similar claim about many other things you would claim to know.
I know for ...[text shortened]... no witnesses that have experienced it and reported back, but that does not limit my knowledge.

'I think we know enough about human consciousness to say conclusively that it cannot exist without a working brain.', Lol

I dunno, FMF is a good case for someone who just may be the antithesis of this statement 😉

Originally posted by FMF
The answer is obtainable at the point of death ..

Originally posted by twhitehead
Is it? I rather doubt that.

The answer I expect with 100% certainty - belief, if you want - is that it is the end. But I cannot say I know it.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I know for a fact that a human being would not survive on Mars without a space suit. There are no witnesses that have experienced it and reported back, but that does not limit my knowledge.

No it doesn't, because all the factors that contribute to that fact (about a human being's ability to survive on Mars without a spacesuit) have been tested, witnessed and thus established as facts. I have no problem with this way of arriving at knowing something.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I think we know enough about human consciousness to say conclusively that it cannot exist without a working brain.

I agree. But perhaps the entity that survives is something not reliant on the working brain. I didn't believe in poltergeists until some stuff happened here last year. Was that some kind of manifestation of life after death? I can't say, because I have no real idea of why or how it happened. I don't really speculate about it because I am not really interested. But, back to the question in hand: is there life after death? Personally I don't think so. In fact I am about as certain as can be. That's why I don't bother to speculate.

Originally posted by FMF
No it doesn't, because all the factors that contribute to that fact (about a human being's ability to survive on Mars without a spacesuit) have been tested, witnessed and thus established as facts. I have no problem with this way of arriving at knowing something.

Then why do you have a problem when it comes to consciousness?
All the factors that contribute to the lack of consciousness after death have been tested witnessed and thus established as facts. Why do you still remain skeptical?

Originally posted by FMF
I agree. But perhaps the entity that survives is something not reliant on the working brain.

You wouldn't similarly speculate that a person would somehow survive on mars because perhaps he doesn't need oxygen. If an entity survives beyond death that does not need the brain then that entity is not what I call consciousness, it is not what I call 'me', and I would certainly not call it 'living'. It just seems that you are irrational about this particular topic.