@galveston75 saidFor the purposes of discussing and debating "immorality" and "sin" on a message board where there are religious people and non-religious people, believers in supernatural causality and people who don't believe that morality comes from a supernatural source, the definition of "sin" I am using is not the colloquial one that you have plucked out of a list of synonyms, but this one: "an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law".
immoral[ ih-mawr-uhl, ih-mor- ]SHOW IPA
SYNONYMS|EXAMPLES|WORD ORIGINSEE MORE SYNONYMS FOR immoral ON THESAURUS.COM
adjective
violating moral principles; not conforming to the patterns of conduct usually accepted or established as consistent with principles of personal and social ethics.
licentious or lascivious.
RELATED WORDS
unscrupulous, pornographic, ((((((sin ...[text shortened]... pt, unethical, shameless, X-rated, abandoned, bad, debauched, dissipated, dissolute, fast, graceless
I think it makes sense to maintain this distinction between 'immorality' and 'sin' given the contrasting beliefs of people here. Deliberately smudging this not insignificant distinction by using a list of synonyms in a thesaurus, in order to pretend that you can "define" a word that way, is a dilution of what words mean that serves no good purpose. Indeed, it strikes me as being a bit of sophistry on your part.
13 Jul 19
@fmf saidgalveston75, do you believe "immorality" and "dissipated" mean exactly the same thing. Only, I was looking at what you copy pasted from a thesaurus...
Deliberately smudging this not insignificant distinction by using a list of synonyms in a thesaurus, in order to pretend that you can "define" a word that way, is a dilution of what words mean that serves no good purpose.
13 Jul 19
@galveston75 saidYes, I accept this definition of "immorality".
immoral
adjective
violating moral principles; not conforming to the patterns of conduct usually accepted or established as consistent with principles of personal and social ethics.
What additional meaning is added to this notion [as defined above] if one deliberately uses the word "sin" instead?
13 Jul 19
@kellyjay saidWhat would be the moral purpose of still inflicting this "never lessening" pain in - say - the 50,000th year after the non-believer's death?
others like myself believe, you are alive going through it aware of the punishment you’re in, you will continue to be, eternally as well. This is hell the never stopping, never lessening, forever being in the pains of it with no hope of redemption, because that time had come and gone unheeded.
What would be the moral purpose of keeping the infliction of this pain secret from the non-believers that have not died yet? If it's actually happening to anyone, it's certainly being kept secret from me.
What would be the moral purpose of a supernatural being providing clear and incontrovertible proof of its existence only after the death of a non-believer, rather than providing such proof when the said non-believer was still alive and able to act upon it?
Your ideology sounds like you have jotted it down on the back of an envelope and haven't run it past the moral coherence smell test even for a moment.
@galveston75 saidThe definitions of "immoral" and "dissipated" are different.
No not exactly the same thing in meaning but living that life style would easily lead one to immorality. Would you agree?
A woman's vagina could "easily lead one to immorality", it does not mean that it would make any sense to say "vagina" and "immorality" are"not exactly the same thing in meaning".
Do you agree that additional meaning is added to the notion of immorality as defined by you on the previous page if one deliberately uses the word "sin" instead of "immorality"?
14 Jul 19
@galveston75 saidDo you except these two definitions?
Strange but whatever.
So if someone murders another, that is not a sin? If it's not what most would call a sin, what is it and why would authorities punish someone for that murder? Isn't many of our laws based on what the bible calls a sin?
[1] "Sins": "immoral acts considered to be a transgression against divine law".
[2] "Immorality": "not conforming to the patterns of conduct usually accepted or established as consistent with principles of personal and social ethics"
Does that distinction, in fact, assist us and make it possible for us to discuss "hell" and "sin" despite our different beliefs?
@fmf saidImmorality can still lead to sin and usually does.
Do you except these two definitions?
[1] "Sins": "immoral acts considered to be a transgression against divine law".
[2] "Immorality": "not conforming to the patterns of conduct usually accepted or established as consistent with principles of personal and social ethics"
Does that distinction, in fact, assist us and make it possible for us to discuss "hell" and "sin" despite our different beliefs?
14 Jul 19
@galveston75 saidAlso if one is thinking and harboring thoughts of immorality but does not follow thru with the action, Jehovah still see's and reads your heart. This alone can seriously damage your standing with him.
Immorality can still lead to sin and usually does.
Do you believe watching porn is a sin or just immoral?
14 Jul 19
@galveston75 said"Immorality" and "sin" in many cases can be used to the refer to the same acts or behaviour. But all people are not going to agree that all "sins", as perceived by religious people, are necessarily "immoral". The distinction between the two words is valuable, especially on a forum like this.
Immorality can still lead to sin and usually does.
14 Jul 19
@galveston75 saidPersonally, while I can see how thoughts can be described as "sinful", I tend to see "morality" as governing action snd interaction, and I am not concerned so much about 'thoughcrimes'.
Also if one is thinking and harboring thoughts of immorality but does not follow thru with the action, Jehovah still see's and reads your heart. This alone can seriously damage your standing with him.
14 Jul 19
@galveston75 saidI will leave whether it is "sinful" or not to people who believe in "sin".
Do you believe watching porn is a sin or just immoral?
In and if itself, I don't see images showing nudity or depiction of sexual acts as immoral, no.
Can the creation of such depictions involve immoral acts? Yes, obviously.
Can immoral acts be in some way related to or a consequence of looking at nude images or depictions of sexual acts? Yes, one can easily think of scenarios.
14 Jul 19
@galveston75 saidI don't believe people who make or watch "porn" are going to go to "Hell" after they die.
Do you believe watching porn is a sin or just immoral?
@fmf saidIf there is a hell or hell fire or lake of fire, it is the ones who ignore the poor and needy and hungry, who will go there after they die. Jesus explained that in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus and other places as well.
I don't believe people who make or watch "porn" are going to go to "Hell" after they die.
@fmf saidImagine a man lives for 25 years and does not accept Christ and the God of these Christians torture the man for 50,000,000,0000,000,000 years and keeps on going. The idea of eternal torture can only make sense in the mind of fool.
What would be the moral purpose of still inflicting this "never lessening" pain in - say - the 50,000th year after the non-believer's death?
What would be the moral purpose of keeping the infliction of this pain secret from the non-believers that have not died yet? If it's actually happening to anyone, it's certainly being kept secret from me.
What would be the moral purpo ...[text shortened]... on the back of an envelope and haven't run it past the moral coherence smell test even for a moment.