Whats the Harm...

Originally posted by googlefudge
[Snark removed]

There is a difference between the morality of a situation and the emotion of a situation.

Not quite. The emotion of many a situations come from the morality of it. Murder, rape, assault, child abuse, etc., all generate emotion because of the morality of these things. So too with abortion.

Originally posted by vivify
Not quite. The emotion of many a situations come from the morality of it. Murder, rape, assault, child abuse, etc., all generate emotion because of the morality of these things. So too with abortion.

Indeed, hard to argue with empirical evidence.

Originally posted by vivify
Actually, it does. it's a human life being robbed of the chance to live. That's morally wrong.

every time a teenage boy bashes one out over his favorite popstar is robbing a human potential life. does that make masturbation morally wrong? should i only have sex with my wife when she's ovulating so i dont rob a human of a chance to live? or does the morality of potential life only kick in when it suits your argument?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
every time a teenage boy bashes one out over his favorite popstar is robbing a human potential life. does that make masturbation morally wrong? should i only have sex with my wife when she's ovulating so i dont rob a human of a chance to live? or does the morality of potential life only kick in when it suits your argument?

And on the same lines, shouldn't women make sure they have unprotected sex every time they
ovulate so as not to waste the 'potential human' egg that gets used up every cycle...

Of course they would have to start with their periods when they are teens...

Originally posted by stellspalfie
every time a teenage boy bashes one out over his favorite popstar is robbing a human potential life. does that make masturbation morally wrong? should i only have sex with my wife when she's ovulating so i dont rob a human of a chance to live? or does the morality of potential life only kick in when it suits your argument?

sperm is a not a human life. It's just a life that comes from a human. Big difference. A zygote isn't a "potential" human life, it already is one. Thus, wacking off isn't the robbing of a human life; abortion is.

Originally posted by vivify
sperm is a not a human life. It's just a life that comes from a human. Big difference. A zygote isn't a "potential" human life, it already is one. Thus, wacking off isn't the robbing of a human life; abortion is.

What the bottom line here is men want to control women. Period. You bring up all kinds of strawman arguments all you want but the simple truth is men want to control every aspect of women's lives. Not all men but enough that the political will is to make abortion illegal if they can.

Originally posted by sonhouse
What the bottom line here is men want to control women. Period. You bring up all kinds of strawman arguments all you want but the simple truth is men want to control every aspect of women's lives. Not all men but enough that the political will is to make abortion illegal if they can.

1) Name one "strawman" argument I've bought up.

2) Claiming that being against abortion has to do with the desire to control women IS a strawman argument.

3) What about women who are against abortion? Do they just want to be controlled by men too?

Originally posted by vivify
1) Name one "strawman" argument I've bought up.

2) Claiming that being against abortion has to do with the desire to control women IS a strawman argument.

3) What about women who are against abortion? Do they just want to be controlled by men too?

Tell that to the religious right wingers out there. Their agenda has always been to keep women down. It always will be.

Originally posted by vivify
Actually, it does. it's a human life being robbed of the chance to live. That's morally wrong.

I see no reason to grant that all human organisms have moral status. I think it is personhood that matters, not merely being alive and a member of some species. Anyway, nothing about abortion involves robbing a fetus, because fetuses don't have rights to chances (see how you're begging the question here). Abortion does prevent a fetus from continuing to have a chance to live. That's the whole point of an abortion. So what?

Originally posted by bbarr
I see no reason to grant that all human organisms have moral status. I think it is personhood that matters, not merely being alive and a member of some species.

So merely being human isn't good enough for you to respect it's life, huh? Sad.

So what criteria do you have for "personhood"?

Originally posted by vivify
So merely being human isn't good enough for you to respect it's life, huh? Sad.

So what criteria do you have for "personhood"?

I think the capacities for consciousness, for at least rudimentary forms of suffering and for at least rudimentary forms of rationality are all necessary and jointly may be sufficient. I think these capacities begin to show up in the third trimester.

Originally posted by bbarr
I think the capacities for consciousness, for at least rudimentary forms of suffering and for at least rudimentary forms of rationality are all necessary and jointly may be sufficient. I think these capacities begin to show up in the third trimester.

So then from the third trimester on, barring physical complications, rape, etc., are you against aborting the child?

Originally posted by sonhouse
What the bottom line here is men want to control women. Period. You bring up all kinds of strawman arguments all you want but the simple truth is men want to control every aspect of women's lives. Not all men but enough that the political will is to make abortion illegal if they can.

You are the one that wants to control women, so don't try to speak for all men, just speak for yourself. 😏

Originally posted by vivify
So then from the third trimester on, barring physical complications, rape, etc., are you against aborting the child?

He is just like sunhouse. He wants to control the woman and tell her to take advantage of her right to abort the fetus before it is born. The sooner the better.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You are the one that wants to control women, so don't try to speak for all men, just speak for yourself. 😏

You love to throw in BS into this so-called debate. Your own bible puts women on a lower plane than men. That proves one of two things. One, that your god actually puts women on a lower plane than women, or two, the whole thing was just made up by men to justify the suppression of women. I chose door #2. Did you read Leviticus 27 yet?