What's the point of heaven?

Originally posted by Agerg
Of course I don't believe this will happen, but what you put forward as an alternative to heaven is still a nice fantasy.

If you cannot remember you past lives, are you really the same person? What emotional connection do you have to those other entities that you reincarnated from or will reincarnate to?

Originally posted by Agerg
Of course I don't believe this will happen, but what you put forward as an alternative to heaven is still a nice fantasy.

It might not be fantasy ..................

Originally posted by wolfgang59
As is being discussed in another thread "living forever" can be
quite a frightening prospect! Its not 200 years, a thouasand ,
amillion or a billion .. its FOREVER..

It would not be a simple choice if ours to take.

If you think that living forever is a frightening prospect, then you have an ill conceived understanding of what eternal life is. Just as the life we live now can be fulfilling and spontaneous, so also will be life in eternity, but profoundly more so.

In eternity there will be no end to the love we will share. There will be no end of peace and the discovery of new worlds and knowledge of life. The idea or thought of boredom will not exist in eternity. There will be no struggle.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
You might like to research that!

I suspect at least 50% of US Jews are atheist.

As you have made the claim, you can get the stats to back yourself up!

I am aware of the stats. But you missed the point I was making with wringett. I suspect I will not hear a reply from him.

Originally posted by FMF
If the gift from God were this finite life on earth and nothing more, would it still be "horrific" in your view.

I don't speculate concerning such "ifs". My concerns are with the facts of life. Everyone wants a "horrific" free life, but that's not the reality for most in this world.

In the world to come, for believers, peace will never end. Love will never end.

Originally posted by josephw
I don't speculate concerning such "ifs". My concerns are with the facts of life. Everyone wants a "horrific" free life, but that's not the reality for most in this world.

I didn't say anything about living a horrific life; I was asking if this life, as it is ~ if it is God given ~ would it be "horrific" if it was the only gift God gave you? As for "ifs", you speculate about them all the time (your description of the afterlife ~ "the discovery of new worlds" and whatnot ~ is basically speculation, isn't it?). I am interested in how blessed you feel about this life, assuming that you see it as God-given.

Originally posted by josephw
If you think that living forever is a frightening prospect, then you have an ill conceived understanding of what eternal life is. Just as the life we live now can be fulfilling and spontaneous, so also will be life in eternity, but profoundly more so.

In eternity there will be no end to the love we will share. There will be no end of peace and the discove ...[text shortened]... e of life. The idea or thought of boredom will not exist in eternity. There will be no struggle.

your answer shows that you do not understand the nature of eternity.

Originally posted by JS357
It makes complete sense but requires a different approach.

Aristotle said that happiness is the one good that we pursue for its own sake. Can you think of any alternative? Even an altruistic existence has to deliver happiness (self-respect, self-esteem, etc.) to the actor, or it will not be pursued.

But it is not our happiness that matters. Heaven isn' ...[text shortened]... God seeking happiness. And of all the planets and species in the world, it's ours that matters.

I actually agree with a lot of what your saying here. As it goes the Joy
of the Lord is our strenght, since He is the reason for all things, and the
power that holds it all together, He matters to it all, every single bit of
it. The happiness of God, the Joy of the Lord, that which pleases God,
and that which does not would in fact be the plumb line of goodness.

If He desires we love one another, and Him, then our hate and crimes
against one another would not place us on His good side.

Originally posted by FMF
I didn't say anything about living a horrific life; I was asking if this life, as it is ~ if it is God given ~ would it be "horrific" if it was the only gift God gave you? As for "ifs", you speculate about them all the time (your description of the afterlife ~ "the discovery of new worlds" and whatnot ~ is basically speculation, isn't it?). I am interested in how blessed you feel about this life, assuming that you see it as God-given.

First of all, I used the term "horrific" in another context, in another post, with a different application.

Secondly, I'm not "speculating" about heaven. It's a real place, with real people, a real landscape with all the things one would expect to find in a real world. The Bible is full of references of what is in heaven. YOU may think it's speculation because you don't recognize the authority of God's Word, but I do, so I am not speculating. You're the one stuck in speculation. I have a sure hope whether you recognize it or not.

"I am interested in how blessed you feel about this life, assuming that you see it as God-given."

Really? Allow me to make a couple of points. Maybe more if I can get this rolling. Don't "assume" that I "see it(this life)as God-given". Of course it is, from the start to the finish. But not everything in my life is of God's will for my life. Nor anyone else's for that matter. But all that leads to a much larger discussion. I try to get to the point.

I have had a charmed life by any standard. I've been privileged to experience this life across a broad spectrum of challenges and liberties few have or will ever know. But at great cost. I think the term "failure" would best describe how I have arrived at where I am. But with just enough success to place me in a home that I own in one of the most beautiful rural settings you can imagine, with a devoted and loving wife and six children, all are grown and on their own except my twelve year old youngest son. I have eight healthy grandchildren and one on the way. I am set to retire, when I want to, but with much work remaining. Thank God. All I am and have is by the grace of God. To Him belongs the glory.

I've been quite fortunate. By all rights I should be dead, considering.

That is how I feel, if you can feel me. But all around me I see confusion and sorrow. On the ground most people are suffering from hopelessness in their lives, and it's only getting worse. I am not isolated from the world in a cocoon. I've seen first hand the degradation and human misery. As have we all. I don't need to cite the statistics. We're all aware of human history.

God created life, but not all that is is of God or is it His will. But nothing lasts forever in this life, and one day, on the "Day of The Lord" all will be set right. You can stake your life on it.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
your answer shows that you do not understand the nature of eternity.

Don't stop there stells. Tell me what YOU think is the "nature of eternity". And while you're at it tell how you know it.

Originally posted by josephw
Secondly, I'm not "speculating" about heaven. It's a real place, with real people, a real landscape with all the things one would expect to find in a real world. The Bible is full of references of what is in heaven. YOU may think it's speculation because you don't recognize the authority of God's Word, but I do, so I am not speculating. You're the one stuck in speculation. I have a sure hope whether you recognize it or not.

Much of what you describe about eternal life is quite clearly your personal speculation.

Originally posted by josephw

I have had a charmed life by any standard. I've been privileged to experience this life across a broad spectrum of challenges and liberties few have or will ever know. But at great cost. I think the term "failure" would best describe how I have arrived at where I am. But with just enough success to place me in a home that I own in one of the most beautiful rural settings you can imagine, with a devoted and loving wife and six children, all are grown and on their own except my twelve year old youngest son. I have eight healthy grandchildren and one on the way. I am set to retire, when I want to, but with much work remaining. Thank God. All I am and have is by the grace of God. To Him belongs the glory.

Why would it have been "horrific" if that's all there was? I find it a fascinatingly nihilistic thing for you to say about life.

Originally posted by josephw
First of all, I used the term "horrific" in another context, in another post, with a different application.

Yes and I am asking you point blank about your use of the word "horrific" and about exactly how you used it in that other post.

Originally posted by josephw
I might have thought that enthusiasm would have flagged with persecution.

So you think that the church flourished because of the promise of Jesus' second coming and the hope of life after death?

And what about the Jews? Doesn't seem that their enthusiasm is flagging even after these last 6000 years. Explain that!

If the kingdom is expected imminently, but doesn't materialize, uncomfortable questions start being asked. But if you can project the second coming onto some nebulous future date, enthusiasm can be maintained indefinitely. It's always just around the corner, but never seems to get here for some reason.

That is what happened with the early proto-Christian movement. The kingdom was expected to materialize imminently on the terrestrial earth. When it became evident that wasn't going to happen, it got switched to a future, otherworldly event.

Originally posted by FMF
Yes and I am asking you point blank about your use of the word "horrific" and about exactly how you used it in that other post.

Read the other post.