Originally posted by robbie carrobie1. Were. Nowadays theists are in the minority.
1. It should be noted that some exceptional minds were theists,...
2. The idea that a belief in theism must be accompanied by low intelligence is difficult to source.
3. I suspect that there are slapheads in both camps,
4. however the idea that theism or atheism contributes to or causes low intelligence is unfounded in my mind.
2. That is not the suggestion. But there is a correlation.
3. YES. 😀
4. I do not think any sane person would suggest that causal link.
Originally posted by wolfgang59in the minority of what? exceptional minds? on what are you basing your claim?
1. [b]Were. Nowadays theists are in the minority.
2. That is not the suggestion. But there is a correlation.
3. YES. 😀
4. I do not think any sane person would suggest that causal link.[/b]
there is no correlation or none that has been proffered here.
Originally posted by wolfgang59Yes, I thought that this paragraph was interesting:
read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence
On the individual level, the education level is positively correlated with a belief in a God In African countries, and negatively correlated in Western countries. The frequency of church visits is however positively correlated with education level in English-speaking countries as well as in Protestantic Europe.So it would appear that low intelligence is correlated with believing in God and not doing anything about it.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell clearly you can't CAUSE low IQ or intelligence or higher intelligence by being theist or atheist since your IQ and intelligence gets developed way before there is any ability to comprehend either faction.
It should be noted that some exceptional minds were theists, Issac Newton and Robert Fischer just by way of example. The idea that a belief in theism must be accompanied by low intelligence is difficult to source. I suspect that there are slapheads in both camps, however the idea that theism or atheism contributes to or causes low intelligence is unfounded in my mind.
That said, the studies I read about this subject showed perhaps some correlation with lower IQ and theism but the numbers were not that significant and could be within statistical error bars.
Besides, I don't think it was a world wide study, for instance, the people tested, were they vetted for nutritional levels and such? It could be the lower IQ's measured could come from another source.
I wouldn't put much credence in the issue till they have a lot better handle on the society involved and a lot of other issues included in the study and a LOT more people tested.
It doesn't matter that people who believe in Jesus as their Savior are seemingly more "dumb" than others who are atheists and seem "smart." Also, the judgement of whether someone is "dumb" or "smart" is in the context of the judge's intent. It is subjective rather than objective.
Personally, I do not understand why atheists think they "know" that there is no God, as their name suggests. Even in their minds it comes down to what they want. It is their desire that God is not in their lives. It is most certainly not because that they can prove there is no God. They cannot prove anything to the contrary of God's existence just because many atheists do not believe. Their "sum value" is worthless for all people of the world. They should just admit that they don't want God in their lives without claiming to others what they cannot prove. Or they should declare that they do not "know" anyone who is God.
I can certainly understand someone who says that he or she does not "know" God. But to state that God does not exist could be purposeful ignorance or a failing of the person in some way or another. Furthermore, our human minds are not even used to their full potentials. So, why would any atheist who does not use his or her full brain claim to anyone that there is no God. Who can be qualified to say that there is no God and have anyone, including himself or herself, believe it?
King James Version
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I Corinthians 1: 26-29
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
That no flesh should glory in his presence.
Originally posted by KingOnPointIf God does not exist then there really is no point in wishing for him to. There is a form of agnosticism where they don't care about God's existence and assume that if God exists then the indifference will be mutual. But most atheists believe they have good reason to think God does not exist. It is not a matter of not wanting him in their lives. If God did exist some, but not all, would be quite happy about that.
It doesn't matter that people who believe in Jesus as their Savior are seemingly more "dumb" than others who are atheists and seem "smart." Also, the judgement of whether someone is "dumb" or "smart" is in the context of the judge's intent. It is subjective rather than objective.
Personally, I do not understand why atheists think they "know" that th ...[text shortened]... hich are not, to bring to nought things that are:
That no flesh should glory in his presence.
Originally posted by KingOnPointGod’s Anger at Sin (verse 27)
It doesn't matter that people who believe in Jesus as their Savior are seemingly more "dumb" than others who are atheists and seem "smart." Also, the judgement of whether someone is "dumb" or "smart" is in the context of the judge's intent. It is subjective rather than objective.
Personally, I do not understand why atheists think they "know" that th ...[text shortened]... hich are not, to bring to nought things that are:
That no flesh should glory in his presence.
18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19 They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. 20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.
21 Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. 22 Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. 23 And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. 25 They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. 26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.
28 Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. 29 Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30 They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. 31 They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. 32 They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.
Originally posted by DeepThoughtDeepThought,
If God does not exist then there really is no point in wishing for him to. There is a form of agnosticism where they don't care about God's existence and assume that if God exists then the indifference will be mutual. But most atheists believe they have good reason to think God does not exist. It is not a matter of not wanting him in their lives. If God did exist some, but not all, would be quite happy about that.
Are you saying that atheists want God to exist? What atheist has ever proven anything about God's non-existence?
If God made Himself known to everyone in a way that showed Him personally by fellowship, and not just results of there being the existence of God, then we could be benefited by Him doing that. If we were given such a pleasant grace, it sure would be wonderful for God to do that.
For whatever reasons, God does not fellowship with man on a regular basis. Moses heard from God, Enoch walked with God, Abraham was the friend of God, Adam and Eve talked with God. Even Cain got to talk with God. We are such needy people that we could be blessed by God's fellowship.
Originally posted by RBHILL
What are some of the reasons?
Originally posted by KingOnPoint
DeepThought,
Are you saying that atheists want God to exist? What atheist has ever proven anything about God's non-existence?
What are some of the reasons?I think the main argument is that absence of evidence implies evidence of absence. I'm an agnostic, so I don't think that this argument works because God can be assumed to be omnipotent (or at least sufficiently potent) to avoid detection, so one would expect an absence of evidence even if God exists, but some are convinced by it.
There are various logical contradictions that emerge when one considers an omnipotent entity. There is an old question: "Can God create an object immoveable even by him?". If he cannot create such an object he is not omnipotent and if he can then his inability to move it renders him not omnipotent.
What atheist has ever proven anything about God's non-existence?To their own satisfaction plenty of them have, but their proofs tend not to satisfy theists or agnostics.
Are you saying that atheists want God to exist?That depends on the atheist. Also, "would be happy" is not the same as "want". For example I would be happy to be given a book on end games, but I don't particularly want a book on endings in any active way.
Originally posted by sonhouseTest Issac Newton and Robert Fischer, theists, they are likely to blow your dim-o-meter up!
Well clearly you can't CAUSE low IQ or intelligence or higher intelligence by being theist or atheist since your IQ and intelligence gets developed way before there is any ability to comprehend either faction.
That said, the studies I read about this subject showed perhaps some correlation with lower IQ and theism but the numbers were not that significa ...[text shortened]... e society involved and a lot of other issues included in the study and a LOT more people tested.
DeepThought,
The answer you typed related to the following question, "What atheist has ever proven anything about God's non-existence?", is the following:
"To their own satisfaction plenty of them have, but their proofs tend not to satisfy theists or agnostics."
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Well, is it safe to say that these atheists do no use logic in their thinking? Why do their conclusions even satisfy their own brains? Not being able to use our senses to find God Himself does not mean that He doesn't exist. How can anyone prove there is no God?
As a side example, how many times does a bird run into a window? Does that mean that because the bird cannot use its senses to understand what a window is, the window must not exist? I guess, that the bird is subject to run into all kinds of windows without ever knowing how to determine where a window will definitely be before it hits the window.
We live in God's existence, but He is outside of our ability to realize Him. He must reveal Himself for us to realize Him. If He does not take care of us, then when are subject to His displeasure and any penalty that goes along with it.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieAll the genius in the world will not will a god to be if there is none. You also know Fischer was a nut case of the first order. It turned out he was 100% Jewish yet he was a frothing at the mouth anti-Semitic. Newton was pretty neurotic also.
Test Issac Newton and Robert Fischer, theists, they are likely to blow your dim-o-meter up!
Humans believing in some god or other won't bring one about if there is none in the first place.
Neither Atheists or Theists can prove their stance. Agnostics can say, if there is a bible god, I want nothing to do with such an insane being or can say I don't know and I don't really give a rats ass one way or the other.