@sonship saidCowardice ? You are such a donkey. I do not cross question you to force you to say anything. You have your interpretation of the bible and i have mine. You feel you have the right to force people to accept your damn nonsense. That is typical church behavior. You people lack decency and manners. Go learn to conduct yourself on a public forum or stay in that false church you belong to.
@Rajk999
Your cowardice in answering directly is not me brow beating you.
Perhaps, for you Jesus is not God.
Perhaps, for you Jesus Christ is not even Lord.
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This is easy. You hold Saul's visit to the medium of Endor as proof of some kind of life after death, claiming that Samuel was alive.
He certainly existed. He had died according to the Bible. But he existed and unless the Bible lies, part of him was brought up from Sheol. What do you want me to do?
Ecclesiates 9:5 "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward, because the memory of them is forgotten"
From the standpoint of those physically alive that is certainly true.
But is cannot be true in every sense.
Solomon wrote of the things under the sun. He continues to use that phrase to indicate our knowledge of these things in the land of the living is LIMITED.
This isn't a climax (your words that you seek to plant in my mouth) it reflects the state of the dead.
Unless the Bible lies.
There is an EXISTENCE beyond physical death.
How was Saul's actions viewed?
They were viewed by the writer of First Samuel. Saul was wrong to do what he did.
But under God's sovereignty He let it happen. Didn't He?
1 Chron 10:13 "Saul died because he was unfaithful to the Lord; he did not keep the word of the Lord and even consulted a medium for guidance" (NIV)
That is QUITE irrelevant to where Samuel the prophet did what he did in SPEAKING to Saul after his soul and spirit were brought UP from Sheol.
How is Saul's disobedience a factor in proving the prophet Samuel's spirit did not come up from Sheol after he had DIED ?
If we talk about the obedience or disobedience of SAUL that is another issue. Isn't it?
Saul wasn't some kind of hero. He was disgraced.
This is irrelevant to the prophet Samuel's existence even after he was DEAD.
I am not making rebellious Saul a hero medullah.
This is your strawman argument. It should be quite easy for you to knock down your strawman argument. Go ahead and speak to Saul's low spiritual condition.
But it is has nothing to do with God allowing the spirit of the prophet Samuel from speaking to Saul from an EXISTENCE beyond Samuel's physical death.
Deut 18:10-12
10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord; because of these same detestable practices the Lord your God will drive out those nations before you.
But God allowed in this case for Samuel's soul to speak to Saul.
That is why the medium was shocked. They were probably use to deceiving people with demons. But when she saw it was actually the spirit of Samuel she was astonished and realized she had been deceived by the disobedient King Saul.
You cannot just ignore these details and focus instead on other details to SUPPRESS the words you don't like.
Sometimes to make a point God allowed some rebellious one to think he was doing just what he wanted. God told Balaam not to prophesy for Balak the king. And then God realizing he was set on greedy gain, said for him to go ahead and do his deed.
It comes down to you having to decide the account of First Samuel 28 is wrong, untrue, a mistake, or it wasn't Samuel's soul / spirit that the angels accompanied up from Sheol.
@sonship saidThe assertions the Bible makes about life after death are most likely made in good faith and based on conjecture about the supernatural ~ or, at least it's a hodgepodge of claims made for a range of reasons by countless unknown people with a range of motivations and then refined over decades and centuries.
Unless the Bible lies. There is an EXISTENCE beyond physical death.
So, you could say, '...unless the Bible and the people who wrote it are mistaken, there is an existence beyond physical death'.
There really is no need to equate not believing the Bible with accusing the Bible of "lying". To do so is merely a false dichotomy and therefore a rhetorical gimmick.
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I do not cross question you to force you to say anything.
You are not forced.
I feel gloriously honored to confess that Jesus is "my Lord and my God".
Is there a greater privilege for me than to confess this One who died for me?
It is a highpoint of my life to confess Jesus Christ as my Lord and my God.
It is not like pulling teeth to me.
Nor is there hesitation.
The One who died on the cross to redeem the entire human race was the Lord and God Christ Jesus. I have decided to call Him mine - a decision I will be thankful for for eternity.
You still can tell us that Jesus is to you Lord and God. That is if you wish.
You might tell Him first.
@sonship saidOh my gosh the hypocrisy!!
@Rajk999Is Jesus Christ your Lord?
Yes or No?
Is Jesus Christ your God?
Yes or No?
It is noted. You avoided ANSWERING the question directly.
How many “yes/no” checkmate questions of mine have you flatly refused to respond to sonship?
You should be ashamed of yourself.
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@divegeester
If he does not want to confess Jesus as his Lord and God he has that right to opt out of not answering . . . (to me).
But I ask that I may know whether to receive or refuse his teaching as John warns.
"Look to yourselves that you do not lose the things which we wrought, but that you may receive a full reward.
Everyone who goes beyond and does not abide in the teaching of Christ does not have God; he who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not say to him, Rejoice!
For he who says to him, Rejoice, shares in his evil works." (2 John 8 - 11)
If Rajk999 wants to deny that Jesus is the Lord and God then I know not to receive his teaching or share in his evil works.
@sonship saidYour continued and persistent promotion of a 'Lord Lord' doctrine was soundly condemned by Christ, who is not interested in mouth worship. So for you to attempt to encourage people who promote instead the teachings and commandments of Christ show how evil you truly are. Its time to keep your Satanic teachings to yourself. Its not welcome.
@Rajk999
I do not cross question you to force you to say anything.
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"In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God and the word was (several different translations) renders
a) divine
b) god like
c) a god (lower case as this is the logos, not Ho Theos).
Neither one of us translates Greek to English. And usually it is those who are polytheist who cannot see that John wrote "and the Word was God".
So you've been taught that with God was another god. But what does Jehovah God say about that?
"I am Jehovah who makes all things,
Who ALONE stretches out the heavens,
Who spread out the earth (Who was with Me?) " (Isa. 44:24b)
"No one was with you O Jehovah God."
That would be my answer.
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medullah,
You say a logos as another god was with Jehovah.
But Jehovah God says "Apart from Me there is no God" (Isa. 44:6)
Jehovah God asks and also declares that He knows of no other God.
Don't you think if there was another God, Jehovah God would know about that god?
"Have I not related to you from that time and declared it?
And you are My witnesses, Is there a God besides Me?
Or is there any other Rock? I do not know of any. "(Isaiah 44:8)
The Gospel of John are also the oracles of God. And the Logos that was with God was God. Know that BEFORE Jehovah no God was formed nor AFTER Jehovah was any god formed.
"You are My witnesses, declares Jehovah . . . Before Me there was no God formed, Neither will there be any after Me.
I, even I, am Jehovah And there is no Savior besides Me." (Isa 44:12)
But if Jehovah God died on the cross in a man, how?
What I would like to be challenged on is - how can God die?
@sonship saidFind a passage that says Jesus is God who died on the cross
medullah,
You say a logos as another god was with Jehovah.
But Jehovah God says "Apart from Me there is no God" (Isa. 44:6)
Jehovah God asks and also declares that He knows of no other God.
Don't you think if there was another God, Jehovah God would know about that god?
[b]"Have I not related to you from that time and decl ...[text shortened]... ied on the cross in a man, how?
What I would like to be challenged on is - how can God die?
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Timothy 2:5-6 KJV)
SImple. No explanation, No twisting.
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (1 Corinthians 8:6 KJV)
See. It is clear in the bible. Your doctrine is false.
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Corinthians 11:3 KJV)
Again. Simple and clear. They are two separate entities.
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@Rajk999
When Thomas called Jesus his Lord and his God, why didn't Jesus rebuke and correct him?
Rather he reaffirmed his statement saying he was fortunate in seeing and believing. For many will not see, yet believe. That He is Lord and God.
"Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God!
Jesus said to him, Because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed." (John 20:28,29)
Why didn't Jesus rebuke and correct Thomas saying He and God were separate?
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Medullah, in case Rajk999 cannot answer, you give it a try.
Jesus affirmed Thomas's confession that He [Jesus] WAS his Lord and God.
He could have sorely corrected Thomas on the God part. Right?
Why do you think He said "Because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and have BELIEVED." (John 20:29) [my bolding]
Believed what?
That Jesus Christ the resurrected God-man is Lord and God.
" . . . our God and Savior Jesus Christ" writes the Apostle Peter (2 Pet. 1:1)
@sonship saidI have an 8 yr old daughter who can answer you. Jesus said nothing because it is a NON ISSUE. IT DOES MATTER You are the only one making it an issue.
@Rajk999
When Thomas called Jesus his Lord and his God, why didn't Jesus rebuke and correct him?
Rather he reaffirmed his statement saying he was fortunate in seeing and believing. For many will not see, yet believe. That He is Lord and God.
"Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God!
Jesus said to him, Because you have seen Me, you ha ...[text shortened]... 20:28,29)
Why didn't Jesus rebuke and correct Thomas saying He and God were separate?