Spirituality
27 Jul 14
29 Jul 14
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterNo, it means an existence of eternal death, not Life. Eternal life is a reward of the believers - there is no more pain for them.
Perhaps it means this, perhaps it means that, yes perhaps second death does mean eternal life in flames.
You take the word of god as literal in one hand and symbolic in the other depending on what suits your need.
You create doctrines of death and fear of literally eternal burning on the one hand, and then deny that death actually means death of the other.
29 Jul 14
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterNo one has gone to the 2nd death yet, it hasn't happen yet.
Death is not a place to go to. Try to open your mind and think a little. Death is Death, not ETERNAL LIFE suffering.
Death is death, yes, but it too will end up in the lake of fire.
You really should read Revelation.
Kelly
Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
30 Jul 14
Originally posted by KellyJayI'm not sure if you are deliberately obfuscating or just a bit dim.
No one has gone to the 2nd death yet, it hasn't happen yet.
Death is death, yes, but it too will end up in the lake of fire.
You really should read Revelation.
Kelly
Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
30 Jul 14
4 edits
Originally posted by Of Ants and ImpsI hereby declare, in full possession of my faculties, sufficiently informed about the consequences, and uncoerced in any way shape or form, that the "Holy" spirit does not exist; and furthermore, your "God" does not exist.
That which can never be forgiven is blaspheming the Holy Spirit and swearing an oath against God when given the full knowledge of those consequences and done willingly.
The fallen angels are no longer free as it were (in power) to go back on their decision.
Oh and whilst I'm on a roll with all this unforgivable blaspheming against the holy spirit malarkey, lemme also throw in that I pledge my undying allegiance to the demon lord himself ... Satan, and that I will assist in any way I can to overthrow "God" (in case I am mistaken and he does exist)
Long live Lucifer!!!
~~~ tremble tremble 😲 ~~~
31 Jul 14
Originally posted by AgergGod is above empty words. He will judge you by your actions.
I hereby declare, in full possession of my faculties, sufficiently informed about the consequences, and uncoerced in any way shape or form, that the "Holy" spirit does not exist; and furthermore, your "God" does not exist.
Oh and whilst I'm on a roll with all this unforgivable blaspheming against the holy spirit malarkey, lemme also throw in that I pledge m ...[text shortened]... in case I am mistaken and he does exist)
Long live Lucifer!!!
~~~ tremble tremble 😲 ~~~
31 Jul 14
Originally posted by Rajk999Matthew 12:36 King James Version (KJV)
God is above empty words. He will judge you by your actions.
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
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01 Aug 14
6 edits
Originally posted by divegeester
You hope that you will feel differently about people being tortured for all eternity, where as I hope that you are misinterpreting scripture.
I hope, rather I know, that all who have received Christ will be transformed and conformed to His image.
I do not make an idol out of any particular doctrinal opinion. My expectation is to be conformed to Christ everything.
If you noticed, in Revelation the angel draws John's attention away from the fearful and fearsome judgment and calls him to come away to look at the fulfillment of God's plan to have a match, a Bride, a Wife as an eternal counterpart.
"And one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, Come here; I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.
And he carried me away in spirit onto a great and high mountain and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God ..." (Rev. 21:9,10)
One of the wrath pouring out angels calls John away to have his last impression about the positive fulfillment of God's eternal purpose.
You will spend considerable time defending verses from a book know to be symbolic in general nature because it is your preconceived version of the truth .
Even recognizing perhaps more than you, the symbolic nature of the "SIGNS" used to convey the revelation, the meaning is rather evident, clear.
There will be a greatest punishment for the greatest offense against God.
I look at the nature of God throughout the Bible and see him differently to you. I see scriptures that say over and over and over (not just once or twice in revelation):
It is part of the nature of a Righteous God that His judgments are not idle, vain, frivolous, or "paper tigers" with no consequences. "Behold the kindness AND severity of God." (Rom. 11:22)
I take in the revelation in its larger scope. I see "the kindness AND severity of God." You see only the kindness and accuse those who see both of misjudging God's character.
- mercy triumphs over judgement
I noticed "mercy triumphs over judgment." I noticed ALL the verses about both God's judgment and God's mercy. I notice accountability and I notice the possibility of great surprises.
I noticed that some from the Old Testament time will be less at odds with God than some latter people.
" Ninevite men will stand up in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something more than Jonah is here." (Luke 11:32)
I am aware of many passages like this. Perhaps YOU assume that I don't know about many mercy, culpability, and even surprise verses related to divine judgment. I know about those passages.
Still, given that I expect some surprises, there still is a greatest punishment against a greatest offense.
- god is love
Yes God is love. Our God is also a consuming fire. And I reserve the right to believe BOTH.
God is love.
And for love, He will rid the universe of Satan and his rebellion, and for love's sake will execute His total vanquishing of the enemies of Ultimate Truth.
I reserve the right to believe the full scope of what the bible reveals about God.
- his love endures forever
And some following Satan to the end will refuse His love.
And some choose never to be reconciled to the loving God.
- his mercy never ends
And some utterly refuse His extended mercy. And I will embrace the full scope of both His kindness and severity as revealed in His word -
The Apostle did not say just "Behold the kindness ... of God". He said "Behold the kindness and severity of God." (Rom. 11:22)
I also see over and over and over "hear oh Israel The Lord your God is one" but you don't seem to take any notice of that when expounding pages and pages and pages expounding the erroneous holy [sic] trinity doctrine. Furthermore in the aforementioned book of revelation it also says of Jesus "I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end". You also ignore that.
That you take much long than others to make your point, does not mean that your point is correct.
This is what I mean by examine your beliefs.
I leave room for expecting some surprises in the last judgment.
I leave room for possible misunderstanding of some passages.
I leave room for admitting that I may not know all the possible ways in which a person's name may be entered into the book of life.
I leave room even that "Love hopes all things".
I leave room for not knowing all the details, all the cases, all the ironic unexpected ways things may turn out in the end.
Given all these accommodations that probably we see in part and prophesy in part, and that we see today through a glass darkly, STILL I feel compelled to realize there is:
1.) a greatest truth.
2.) a greatest rejection and offense against that greatest truth.
3.) a corresponding greatest penalty for its trespass.
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01 Aug 14
5 edits
If before the creation of the universe, before the creation of any angels or man or any creatures, if God had created me first and asked my advice, I would would leave the decision with the Almighty.
If I alone was in existence with God and He said -
"Sonship, I am about to create these creatures. They will have the capacity to rebel against Me if they choose to do so. Now what do you think I should do?
Do you think I should punish them by making them non-existent?
Or do you think I should send them to a place of eternal suffering?
What is your decision? "
I would say "God, I don't know what is best in that regard. I don't trust myself that I would make the best decision in that regard. Even if you let the scheme be up to me, I would not shoulder the responsibility because I am not God. Lord, You as the Eternal and Almighty, the Most High, the ground of all being and the Creator, Perfect in Righteousness, Love, Justice ... Lord, I trust that You know what is the best result.
I do not believe that I can improve upon the decision of God on these things, which ever You choose to do."
01 Aug 14
Originally posted by sonshipHoly monologue Batman!You hope that you will feel differently about people being tortured for all eternity, where as I hope that you are misinterpreting scripture.
I hope, rather I know, that all who have received Christ will be transformed and conformed to His image.
I do not make an idol out of any particular doctrinal opinion. My expectation is to be ...[text shortened]... e against that greatest truth.
3.) a corresponding [b]greatest penalty for its trespass.[/b]
02 Aug 14
Originally posted by sonshipBut divegeester and sunhouse would have all kinds of advice for God, because they believe thay know more about what a real god would do.
If before the creation of the universe, before the creation of any angels or man or any creatures, if God had created me first and asked my advice, I would would leave the decision with the Almighty.
If I alone was in existence with God and He said -
"Sonship, I am about to create these creatures. They will have the capacity to rebel against Me if th ...[text shortened]... lieve that I can improve upon the decision of God on these things, which ever You choose to do."
02 Aug 14
1 edit
Originally posted by sonshipWhy is rejecting a truth, or even the truth, such a big offence?You hope that you will feel differently about people being tortured for all eternity, where as I hope that you are misinterpreting scripture.
I hope, rather I know, that all who have received Christ will be transformed and conformed to His image.
I do not make an idol out of any particular doctrinal opinion. My expectation is to be ...[text shortened]... e against that greatest truth.
3.) a corresponding [b]greatest penalty for its trespass.[/b]
Simple and short explanation, please.
No trick here, I really cannot imagine what conceivable 'offence' there is that deserves any penalty.
04 Aug 14
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterThere is a physical death and there is a spiritual death. The spiritual death comes from hearing the Word and totally rejecting any of Its content.
Death is not a place to go to. Try to open your mind and think a little. Death is Death, not ETERNAL LIFE suffering.
Rejecting any of Its content means, not only in Its hearing, but in rejecting the nature of God. And God's nature is Love.
If evil lives in you, then any aspect of God does not. Yet, a person like that God loves the most, and strives at great length to bring them home.
If the nature of God lives in you, and you do not understand the concepts of God. The fact still remains, God is present in your life whether you know it or not.
04 Aug 14
Originally posted by Of Ants and ImpsNow this is an interesting statement.
That which can never be forgiven is blaspheming the Holy Spirit and swearing an oath against God when given the full knowledge of those consequences and done willingly.
The fallen angels are no longer free as it were (in power) to go back on their decision.
Even in the scripture it never says exactly what the sin is against the Holy Spirit.
There are many humans who swear an oath of such a nature against God. Of coarse they don't have a "full knowledge", but it is certainly done willingly.
But i would beg to say that even the Angels, as gifted as they are, do not have the "full knowledge" of their own consequences.
It is true that the fallen Angels do not have the "free will" to go back on their decision. As Satan strives to be God-like, his yoke is on them, and they are bound to Satan through it. I just want to add here, 'All things are possible in God' ! Even the forgiveness of a fallen Angel.