Originally posted by RJHindsYes: you have your exact counterpart in ISIS and the Islamic version of apocalyptic prophecies, as you know from the Debates Forum.Middle East Muslims also seem keen to expedite the End Days.
😏
HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
You deserve each other.
26 Apr 15
Originally posted by SuzianneAnti-semitism is still rife in the US, just more subtle than it used to be. Jews were persecuted and are still in many places in the US and around the world. You just don't hear much about it in the news.
That's all practically ancient history. Even the whole 'Jews killed Christ' thing is so yesterday. I don't know any Christians who 'hate' Jews. In fact, they're very often supportive of Jews and Israel, especially vis–à–vis the Palestinian situation.
Just recently a Jewish friend told me she was ask to see her horns when she visited South Carolina. It seems a common misconception that people think Jews have horns for some twisted reason.
26 Apr 15
2 edits
Originally posted by finneganI couldn't find a link to the 19th century yet. Here is one for century 20.
Back online then sonhouse. Maybe you could answer my question now, regarding the 100 year period during which the British permitted the massacre of Jews in Palestine.
"Like the British allowing the massacre of Jews in Palestine which went on for 100 years," were your words.
It looks like in the 1920's is was Jews being killed then later, they fought back.
.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine
Mandatory Palestine is talking about the 'British Mandate' where they arbitrarily said, this is Syria, this is Palestine, this is Jordan, etc, with ZERO regard to actual tribal associations.
Here is a list of 'Pogroms' against Jews and others such as Armenians, centuries of it, including some in Wales, London, and Palestine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom
And Muslim massacres of Jews before 1948:
http://jewishrefugees.blogspot.com/2011/01/massacre-of-jews-by-muslims-before-1948.html
These were the times of the British mandate and they turned a blind eye often enough when Muslims were killing Jews supposedly under the 'protection' of the Brits.
Originally posted by sonhouseThe British Mandate ran from 1920 to 1948. I am not clear how you justify your assertion that the British tolerated massacres of the Jews in Palestine for 100 years. I am not clear even how you would justify it for 28 years.
I couldn't find a link to the 19th century yet. Here is one for century 20.
It looks like in the 1920's is was Jews being killed then later, they fought back.
.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine
Mandatory Palestine is talking about the 'British Mandate' where they arbitrarily said, this is Syria, this is Palest ...[text shortened]... eye often enough when Muslims were killing Jews supposedly under the 'protection' of the Brits.
Obviously, I am perfectly well aware of the deplorable violence against Jews over time, as listed by you for example. It is really not necessary to reiterate the same point here .
26 Apr 15
Originally posted by finneganSorry, I thought the mandate was a lot earlier.
The British Mandate ran from 1920 to 1948. I am not clear how you justify your assertion that the British tolerated massacres of the Jews in Palestine for 100 years. I am not clear even how you would justify it for 28 years.
Obviously, I am perfectly well aware of the deplorable violence against Jews over time, as listed by you for example. It is really not necessary to reiterate the same point here .
Originally posted by sonhouseBut is it worse than discrimination against other minorities? Is discrimination against Jews in any way unique, or are humans in general just prone to discriminating? In addition, Jews in Israel are also guilty of discrimination in various forms - running an apartheid system as despicable as the one South Africa used to have.
Anti-semitism is still rife in the US, just more subtle than it used to be. Jews were persecuted and are still in many places in the US and around the world. You just don't hear much about it in the news.
Originally posted by twhiteheadWell, the African Apartheid system was based on the idea that white men were intrinsically superior to black men.
But is it worse than discrimination against other minorities? Is discrimination against Jews in any way unique, or are humans in general just prone to discriminating? In addition, Jews in Israel are also guilty of discrimination in various forms - running an apartheid system as despicable as the one South Africa used to have.
In Israel, the Apartheid system is not based on racial superiority but based on the will to survive. Remember, Israel is surrounded by over 100 million 'Arabs' for want of a better word, who have avowed at one time or another, to kill all Jews and the nation of Israel in particular.
Their Apartheid system is based on the desire to continue to be alive, nothing to do with racial superiority.
The constitution of the Palestinian government right from the top has avowed the destruction of Israel and the same with Iran. If I was in charge and a systemic hatred of Jews were announced that way for the whole world to see, I would not want Palestinians or Iranians in my part of the world either.
Not that there are not atrocities committed by the Israeli's. They go overboard sometimes, for instance, throwing gasoline to the flames by continuing to build settlements in area's considered Palestinian lands,
And leaving the Palestinians with water not fit for crops much less drinking,
But the 'Arabs' started it, the very next day the country of Israel started, 24 hours later they were attacked on several fronts in the '47 wars.
It seems people conveniently forget all that bad blood and now revile Israel for acting the way it does.
I don't condone it but I certainly understand where they are coming from.
Originally posted by sonhouseThe Israel apartheid system (which you have the decency to concede is very real) is not defensive but expansionist. Israel is encroaching steadily on land and resources in the West Bank region and East Jerusalem in flagrant contradiction of international law.
Well, the African Apartheid system was based on the idea that white men were intrinsically superior to black men.
In Israel, the Apartheid system is not based on racial superiority but based on the will to survive. Remember, Israel is surrounded by over 100 million 'Arabs' for want of a better word, who have avowed at one time or another, to kill all Jew ...[text shortened]... g the way it does.
I don't condone it but I certainly understand where they are coming from.
Israel's neighbours have been willing to reach agreement with Israel from and even during the 1947 war. Israel is aggressive and expansionist and has yet to see any advantage in peace over continuing to expand with Western support. Far from defensive,the Suez Crisis, also named the Tripartite Aggression, was an unprovoked and outrageous invasion of Egypt in late 1956 by Israel, followed by Britain and France. Neighbouring states have been consistently unsympathetic and hostile to the Palestinian cause.
A century of history includes complex issues for debate and it is rarely useful to over simplify. Attempting to represent the Zionist movement as defensive, however, is a delusion.
Originally posted by sonhouseI don't believe that excuse. The apartheid system in Israel is outright racist discrimination based on desire to no live with people of a different race or culture.
In Israel, the Apartheid system is not based on racial superiority but based on the will to survive.
Remember, Israel is surrounded by over 100 million 'Arabs' for want of a better word, who have avowed at one time or another, to kill all Jews and the nation of Israel in particular.
That doesn't justify the every day racism within Israel, nor the deliberate separation of schools/ housing by race. All apartheid does is make the situation worse, not better.
The constitution of the Palestinian government right from the top has avowed the destruction of Israel and the same with Iran.
So if Angola's constitution avowed the destruction of South Africa, would that have justified the Aparthied in South Africa? Seriously now, what does Iran's constitution have to do with the situation within Israel? If you are going to defend Israel then at least try and make sense.
But the 'Arabs' started it, the very next day the country of Israel started, 24 hours later they were attacked on several fronts in the '47 wars.
That is like saying the Red Indians started it thus justifying the US extermination of American Indians. And yes, people did use that excuse.
It seems people conveniently forget all that bad blood and now revile Israel for acting the way it does.
We have bad blood here in South Africa and did during Aparthied. That doesn't justify it.
I don't condone it ....
You seem to be trying very hard to do so.
27 Apr 15
Originally posted by finnegan"keen to expedite the End Days"
Absolutely. American fundies see Zionism as fulfilling their prophecies and are keen to expedite the End Days:
Since the Tribulation will see the end of Christianity in the West (at least the public recognition of it as a religion), along with the end of all religion except the worship of the AntiChrist, most Christians I know are terrified of the "End Days" and pray daily that God have mercy on his flock and forestall these times as long as possible. This does not, in fact, coincide with the Shia Muslim idea that the twelfth imam will restore Shia justice to the world, and so his arrival should be encouraged and quickened, if possible. Christians do believe that at the end of the Tribulation, Christ will return to eliminate his enemies and set up God's Kingdom, but the difference here is the great price to be paid before his return. While Christians do await Christ's return, no Christian I know encourages the Tribulation which comes before.
27 Apr 15
Originally posted by twhiteheadSo, are you conflating "the constitution of the Palestinian government" with "Iran's constitution"?? Or did you just ignore the "the constitution of the Palestinian government" part? If you are going to defend the Palestinians then at least try and make sense.
"The constitution of the Palestinian government right from the top has avowed the destruction of Israel and the same with Iran."
So if Angola's constitution avowed the destruction of South Africa, would that have justified the Aparthied in South Africa? Seriously now, what does Iran's constitution have to do with the situation within Israel? If you are going to defend Israel then at least try and make sense.
- Joined
- 31 May 06
- Moves
- 1795
27 Apr 15
Originally posted by SuzianneAnd you speak for all ~2.2 billion Christians around the world who all think exactly the same things you do?
[b]"keen to expedite the End Days"
Since the Tribulation will see the end of Christianity in the West (at least the public recognition of it as a religion), along with the end of all religion except the worship of the AntiChrist, most Christians I know are terrified of the "End Days" and pray daily that God have mercy on his flock and forestall these ...[text shortened]... ans do await Christ's return, no Christian I know encourages the Tribulation which comes before.[/b]
You know a representative subset of all Christians, and not an unrepresentative subset of people who hold
similar beliefs?
You believe that this view that "Christian I know encourages the Tribulation which comes before" will even
survive unchallenged just by the other Christians on this site?
most Christians I know are terrified of the "End Days" and pray daily that God have mercy on his flock
and forestall these times as long as possible
Well that sounds miserable.
If you ever ask about what harm religion does... This is the kind of thing I am talking about.
And note, this particular harm is only to those poor saps who believe this stuff, it only harms
me in as much as I have empathy for the suffering of others.
Now as the Billboards say... "There is probably no god. Now stop worrying and live your life."