Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
"Why Do Men Reject God?"
"Most people in the world, throughout the ages of history, have believed in some concept of a Supreme Being. They may have had a perverted sense of Who that Being is, but they were convinced that there is a Personal Power greater than man. Given the evidence available, faith is reasonable. That is why the psalmist declared: “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God” (Psalm 14:1). The Hebrew word for “fool” suggests one who is not thinking rationally.
Since unbelief is neither reasonable nor the norm, one cannot but wonder why some people become atheists. I am convinced, after reflecting upon the matter for many years, that religious disbelief does not result from logical conclusions based on well-researched data. Rather, generally speaking, emotional motivation of some sort is a primary causative factor.
Consider the following case. In 1996, Judith Hayes, a senior writer for The American Rationalist, authored a caustic, atheistic tirade titled: In God We Trust: But Which One? In this treatise, Mrs. Hayes revealed two clues as to why she left the Lutheran Church (Missouri Synod) and became an atheist. As a youngster, she had a friend who was a Buddhist. Judith was very close to “Susan,” and she simply could not tolerate the idea that her friend, who did not accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God, might be lost apart from the biblical redemptive system.
So, rather than carefully examining the evidence to determine whether or not the claims of the Lord (as set forth in the New Testament record — see John 14:6; Acts 4:12) are true, she simply decided, on an emotional and reactionary basis, that Christianity could not be genuine. Eventually Judith married, but the relationship degenerated. Mrs. Hayes claims her husband was verbally abusive. Again, though, instead of considering the possibility that she might have been responsible for having made a bad choice in her marital selection, or that her husband decided on his own volition to be abusive (in direct violation of divine teaching — Ephesians 5:25ff), she blamed God for her disappointment.
“How could I possibly have wound up married to a tyrant? Why had God forsaken me?,” she wrote (1996, p. 15). God did not forsake her. He honored her freedom of choice, and that of her husband as well. Human abuse of that freedom is not the Lord’s responsibility.
The infidel William Ernest Henley (1849-1903) was known principally for his skeptical poem, Invictus. As a youngster, Henley contracted tuberculosis, and had to have one foot amputated. He suffered much across the years and became quite bitter. He wrote: In the fell clutch of circumstance I have not winced or cried aloud. Under the bludgeonings of chance, my head is bloody, but unbowed. His disbelief, however, was emotional, not intellectual.
The late Isaac Asimov once wrote: “Emotionally I am an atheist. I don’t have the evidence to prove that God doesn’t exist, but I so strongly suspect that he doesn’t that I don’t want to waste my time” (1982, pp. 6-10, emp. added).
In one of his books, Aldous Huxley acknowledged that he had reasons for “not wanting the world to have a meaning.” He contended that the “philosophy of meaningless” was liberating. He confessed that the morality of theism interfered “with our sexual freedom” (1966, p. 19). This is hardly a valid argument for rejecting the vast array of evidence that testifies to the existence of a Supreme Being!
Here is an important point. When men have motives for resisting faith in God, and when — out of personal prejudice — they are predisposed to reject the Creator, they become “ripe” for philosophical skepticism."
(Wayne Jackson) https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/397-why-do-men-reject-god
What are some of the other reasons for rejecting the possibility of a Supreme Being and accepting the consequences?
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyBump
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
[b]"Why Do Men Reject God?"
"Most people in the world, throughout the ages of history, have believed in some concept of a Supreme Being. They may have had a perverted sense of Who that Being is, but they were convinced that there is a Personal Power greater than man. Given the evidence available, fai ...[text shortened]... e other reasons for rejecting the possibility of a Supreme Being and accepting the consequences?[/b]
What are some of the other reasons for rejecting the possibility of a Supreme Being and accepting the consequences?
People who have no beliefs in the existence of god(s) also lack belief in "the consequences". This seems rather obvious, no?
A more interesting question I find is "Why do theists NOT reject god?" (I use "reject" here in the way that most people use it in their daily lives, not the way theists in this forum like to use it)
If you belief that I'm going to either burn for all eternity after my death or that I'm going to be in absolute solitude after my death whereas believers will "live" happily ever after in heaven - in short, if you believe I'm going to be severely punished....
.... just because I lack a belief....
... and you are totally ok with that and continue to worship and love the being that's supposedly going to punish me, then you are a sad, sad person who does not mind that others are being tortured just as long as your place next to your great leader is secured.
How can you look yourself in the mirror, not rejecting such a brute malevolent being?
How awful must His punishment get before you say "ok, enough is enough, no one deserves such torture and pain, no matter their crime?"
Originally posted by Great King Rat
[b]What are some of the other reasons for rejecting the possibility of a Supreme Being and accepting the consequences?
People who have no beliefs in the existence of god(s) also lack belief in "the consequences". This seems rather obvious, no?
A more interesting question I find is "Why do theists NOT reject god?" (I use "reject" here in the ...[text shortened]... re you say "ok, enough is enough, no one deserves such torture and pain, no matter their crime?"[/b]
Originally posted by Great King Rat
What are some of the other reasons for rejecting the possibility of a Supreme Being and accepting the consequences?
People who have no beliefs in the existence of god(s) also lack belief in "the consequences". This seems rather obvious, no?
A more interesting question I find is "Why do theists NOT reject god?" (I use "reject" here in the way that most people use it in their daily lives, not the way theists in this forum like to use it)
If you belief that I'm going to either burn for all eternity after my death or that I'm going to be in absolute solitude after my death whereas believers will "live" happily ever after in heaven - in short, if you believe I'm going to be severely punished....
.... just because I lack a belief....
... and you are totally ok with that and continue to worship and love the being that's supposedly going to punish me, then you are a sad, sad person who does not mind that others are being tortured just as long as your place next to your great leader is secured.
How can you look yourself in the mirror, not rejecting such a brute malevolent being?
How awful must His punishment get before you say "ok, enough is enough, no one deserves such torture and pain, no matter their crime?"
"A more interesting question I find is "Why do" some people, drug users, "NOT reject" that final needle that causes them to Overdose/Dead On Arrival? "(I use "reject" here in the way that most people use it in their daily lives, not the way" the media spins it because of a network's news reporting bias or entertainment value). GKR decides for the man in the mirror.
An alternative address awaits all who reject Christ’s agonizing substitutionary spiritual death on their behalf: the Lake of Fire, sharing the final destination of the devil and his angels. It's an endless nightmare of suffering and pain; a place of eternal torment and hopelessness: "And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (Revelation 20:10b) "And if anyone's name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the Lake of Fire." (Revelation 20:15)
Christ took our place and accepted the punishment of separation from God the Father during those final three hours of the crucifixion. His finished work atoned for the sins of all mankind; and in doing so propitiated (satisfied) the Righteousness and Justice of God. All who reject God's Grace Gift are without hope and without eternal life. “God demonstrates His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died as a substitute for us.” (Revelation 20:10b)
God respects our volition. He has given us the freedom to make our own uncoerced individual choice with respect to the person and finished work of Jesus Christ. By a simple act of faith we can have eternal life: “He gave His only begotten [uniquely born] Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3: 16b)
It’s a private decision. No one else can make it for us nor has the right to force us to make any decision in this matter. In the privacy of your own soul, you too can simply tell God the Father you are believing in Jesus Christ. In that moment, your eternal future will be assured. You will have eternal life; you will share an eternal relationship with God and live with Him forever in heaven. Faith alone in Christ alone is salvation! Choice is yours. It's your call, GKR.
Originally posted by Great King RatYes. I'm preoccupied with the person of Christ and have a personal love for both Him and God the Father and a constant appreciation for the person and work of God the Holy Spirit (three distinct members of the trinity with identical attributes and different functions in the reconciliation of depraved mankind). Because of my gratitude for the Grace Gift of Salvation and awareness of the alternative to rejecting it, I also have an impersonal or virtue love toward those who are without hope and without the prospect of eternal life: a concerned love which includes several family members, close friends and distant acquaintances face to face and online. None of this was possible the day I believed in Christ. Why? I was an ignorant infant with so much to learn. Even in the human realm, no one can love anyone until first coming to know that person.
Would you say you love god, GB?
You love a being knowing that being will torture me forever simply because I don't believe said being exists. You are a sick, depraved man and the world would be a better place without people like you.
You are no better than those that support their dictator while knowing any opposition to the leadership will be murdered.
Originally posted by Great King RatFirst of all, let me state that I do not believe in endless torment in the Lake of Fire. After the Judgment, those found wanting will experience the second death. No torture, no endless suffering. There's no need for that. Their souls will be extinguished. No returning to the Creator, no eternal reward. Your eternal separation from God is fulfillment of your rejection of God and your acceptance of sin. All of us have free will precisely for this purpose. It is *your* choice. So far, you've chosen... poorly.
You love a being knowing that being will torture me forever simply because I don't believe said being exists. You are a sick, depraved man and the world would be a better place without people like you.
You are no better than those that support their dictator while knowing any opposition to the leadership will be murdered.
The Good News is that there is still time to choose wisely. You would be well advised to get started. 'Overnight' conversion has been known, but it is rare. None of us know how much time we have left to choose our 'final answer'.
Originally posted by Great King RatYou've been given factual information. It's my prayer that you will reconsider these passages from the Word of God:
You love a being knowing that being will torture me forever simply because I don't believe said being exists. You are a sick, depraved man and the world would be a better place without people like you.
You are no better than those that support their dictator while knowing any opposition to the leadership will be murdered.
"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten [uniquely born] Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name [person] of the only begotten [uniquely born] Son of God." (John 3:16-18)
"Believe in the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved. " (Acts 16:31a)
"I am the way, and the truth and the life; no man comes to the Father but through me." (John 14:6b)
"As it is written, 'There is none righteous, not even one'". (Romans 3:10)
"Therefore, just as through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and death spread to all men because all have sinned." (Romans 5:12)
"For all of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment." (Isaiah 64:6a)
"Truly, truly, I say unto you every one who commits sin is the slave of sin." (John 8:34)
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)
"He [God] made Him [Christ] who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Corinthians 5:21)
"And being in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross." (Philippians 2:8)
"For there is one God and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all." (1 Timothy 2:5-6a)
"But as many as received Him, to them He gave power to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name.(John 1:12)
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." (John 3:36)
"He who hears My word and believes Him who sent me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment but has passed out of death into life." (John 5:24)
"I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who believes in Me shall never die." (John 11:25-26a)
"And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:15)
"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death." (Romans 8:1-2)
"For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:26) When you believe in Christ, you enter into a new, personal relationship with God; a relationship beginning in time and a member of His family forever.
"And I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand." (John 10:28) Though all believers will fail, some more than others, God never abandons any of his children. Their position in Him is secure. The fact of His timely warning and intensive discipline attests to His love for His children. It's a permanent union.
"For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities nor things present, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing shall be able to separate us from the unfailing love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:38-39) Relationship with God is permanent. Once you've believed in Christ, you cannot lose your salvation. Your ultimate security is God's unconditional promise of eternal life. God's perfection is your guarantee.
James observes that an individual's life on earth is but a "fleeting vapor trail", a fine thread of a few years or decades in length at best to think about and make advance preparation for life after physical death. A believer in Christ can look forward to "... an inheritance which is undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you." (1 Peter 1:4)
Though the Bible reveals few details about heaven, it does assure us that it is glorious beyond our imaginations and any temporal happiness we've known: "And He shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there shall no longer be any death; there shall no longer be any mourning, or crying or pain." (Revelation 21: 4a)
Most significant and astounding of all, we will see and be in the presence of Christ Himself who is "... the radiance of His [God the Father's] Glory and the exact representation of His nature." Hebrews 1:3a
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Originally posted by Grampy Bobbythere are only so many 'walls of text' a man can take. id like to find the man who invented 'cut and paste' and beat him to death with a printed stack of grampy bobby posts.
You've been given factual information. It's my prayer that you will reconsider these passages from the Word of God:
"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten [uniquely born] Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God ...[text shortened]... diance of His [God the Father's] Glory and the exact representation of His nature." Hebrews 1:3a
I don't want you to hide at all. I want you to see that you worship a being that would torture me simply for not believing. Not for murdering, not for raping little children, not for making other people feel bad, but for not believing.
And you are okay with that.
I want you to see the sickness that is inside your head.
Forget the bible, forget wether or not god exists, forget about me.
YOU are okay with torture and eternal damnation just because somebody doesn't behave exactly as they should - without being aware of it. You should be thinking about YOU and your utter lack of moral, basic principles and compassion.
Would the world be a nicer place if it was filled with only GBs or with only GKRs? Filled with people who are okay with eternal torture or filled with people who are not okay with eternal torture?