Why does God allow sickness?

Originally posted by MrMartin
I hope this thread will shed some light, comfort and reassurance that God is truly in control.

There seems to be significant disagreement about that in the Theistic community. Some say that we have free will and that most suffering is a result of us exercising that free will - hence God is not in control.

Your overall argument seems to be that only God knows what is best and that everything he does is necessarily good however bad or stupid it may look to us. The flaw in that argument is that you are then left with the realization that you have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the God you worship is good or bad - it must all be taken on faith. Whatever good you may think he has done may in fact be bad in the bigger picture.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Do you think god created human beings with cancer as an natural ingredience? Like cancer is good for us? Like there should be no whining, because cancer is a natural part of life?

Why did god create cancer in the first case?

This is what is flawed. The 'great' designer couldn't create mankind without these kind of flaws, therefore the 'great' design ...[text shortened]... ating.

What I can tell god has cancer himself, because we are an image of him himself...

i do not agree. in fact i submit the idea that adverse conditions causes spiritual growth. just as adverse conditions make organisms to adapt or die.
i propose that life, this life, is training for the eternity of afterlife. what is the point of a perfect, eternal life? and why would there be an eternity after eternity? if you didn't suffer hardships, if you hadn't have to overcome obstacles, what could possibly drive you to better yourself? if life is perfect, how can you improve it?

Originally posted by SwissGambit
It is not [b]my concept nor my assumption. It's theirs.

I personally think that there is insufficient evidence for any gods, compassionate or otherwise. However, I adopt their views for the sake of argument, if only to show the absurdity to which certain theistic beliefs lead.[/b]

of course there is insufficient proof. that is why it is called religion. we theists do not claim to be sure there is a god (some of us anyway), we believe.


scientists are researching string theory. it is not proven yet, nobody know if it is a valid theory, but some are still researching it. science is the pursuit of knowledge, but until discovery knowledge is unknown, an unproven unknown. why do you believe religion is absurd but pursuing something you don't know is real isn't?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
i do not agree. in fact i submit the idea that adverse conditions causes spiritual growth. just as adverse conditions make organisms to adapt or die.

I used to like a saying I saw on a movie poster:
"That which doesn't kill us make us stronger".
Of course your whole argument fails to address "that which does kill us".

i propose that life, this life, is training for the eternity of afterlife. what is the point of a perfect, eternal life? and why would there be an eternity after eternity? if you didn't suffer hardships, if you hadn't have to overcome obstacles, what could possibly drive you to better yourself? if life is perfect, how can you improve it?
And what is this 'meaning' that you derive from overcoming obstacles? Do you actually 'overcome' most hardships or simply endure them? Since you seem to be arguing that bettering oneself is a good thing and thus it is good to start at the bottom, have you considered giving away all your money and coming to live in Africa so as to maximize your potential for bettering yourself? ie start at the bottom and you have further up to go.
If you are arguing that a perfect life is not desirable then why do you try to improve your current life?
You clearly see value in the action of improving. What is that value?

Originally posted by twhitehead
I used to like a saying I saw on a movie poster:
"That which doesn't kill us make us stronger".
Of course your whole argument fails to address "that which does kill us".

[b]i propose that life, this life, is training for the eternity of afterlife. what is the point of a perfect, eternal life? and why would there be an eternity after eternity? if you ...[text shortened]... current life?
You clearly see value in the action of improving. What is that value?

Of course your whole argument fails to address "that which does kill us".

irrelevant when it comes to the advancement of humanity. a human dieing has as much impact on the species as a raindrop in an ocean.


"have you considered giving away all your money and coming to live in Africa so as to maximize your potential for bettering yourself?"
when i achieve perfection, i will consider it, until then i have quite enough obstacles to overcome in my current status. and besides, i was again speaking for humanity in general. without predators and a weak constitution the apes would never have developed civilization. in a world with no obstacles, in a world with no enemies we would have still be picking fruits and swing from the trees.

"If you are arguing that a perfect life is not desirable then why do you try to improve your current life?"
just because perfection cannot be achieved in this lifetime doesn't mean we shouldn't seek it.

"You clearly see value in the action of improving. What is that value?"
the journey is more important than the destination.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
i do not agree. in fact i submit the idea that adverse conditions causes spiritual growth. just as adverse conditions make organisms to adapt or die.
i propose that life, this life, is training for the eternity of afterlife. what is the point of a perfect, eternal life? and why would there be an eternity after eternity? if you didn't suffer hardships, if y ...[text shortened]... what could possibly drive you to better yourself? if life is perfect, how can you improve it?

So cancer *is* created by god, according to your views? 'To harden us'?

Some christians says that satan created the cancer in evilness. He who has cancer is a sinner and has turned from god, and deserves to die.

If you say that god created cancer, and other christians say it is satan, then may I propose that god *is* infact satan, in the same and one person?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
of course there is insufficient proof. that is why it is called religion. we theists do not claim to be sure there is a god (some of us anyway), we believe.


scientists are researching string theory. it is not proven yet, nobody know if it is a valid theory, but some are still researching it. science is the pursuit of knowledge, but until discovery know ...[text shortened]... wn. why do you believe religion is absurd but pursuing something you don't know is real isn't?

Most theists DO claim to be sure there is a god. You are in the minority.

Some scientists have objected to ST research on grounds that it's not falsifiable. If they're right, I'd agree that ST research would not do much better than religion at establishing truth.

I don't think all religion is absurd. Hence the choice of words in the last post.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
irrelevant when it comes to the advancement of humanity. a human dieing has as much impact on the species as a raindrop in an ocean.

But why is the advancement of humanity important at all, if individuals are irrelevant?

when i achieve perfection, i will consider it, until then i have quite enough obstacles to overcome in my current status.
So your argument does not address the fact that I am at a greater disadvantage than you. In other words your argument attempts to explain suffering but fails to explain the extent of suffering. Either some of my obstacles are unnecessary or your do not have enough obstacles to overcome. You cant have it both ways.

and besides, i was again speaking for humanity in general. without predators and a weak constitution the apes would never have developed civilization. in a world with no obstacles, in a world with no enemies we would have still be picking fruits and swing from the trees.
Actually it is not as simple as that at all - and again I ask: why is the evolution of humanity so important? Surely God could have started us all off fully evolved?

just because perfection cannot be achieved in this lifetime doesn't mean we shouldn't seek it.
You missed my point. Your claim was that perfection was not desirable.

the journey is more important than the destination.
What is important about the journey? You might as well say 'suffering is important'. Without a reason for its importance you are not explaining anything.