Go back
Why hide Cain??

Why hide Cain??

Spirituality

vistesd

Hmmm . . .

Joined
19 Jan 04
Moves
22131
Clock
16 Jul 05
3 edits
Vote Up
Vote Down

From Genesis 1:

27 So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.”



From Genesis 4:

16 Then Cain went away from the presence of the LORD, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
17 Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch; and he built a city, and named it Enoch after his son Enoch.


Many scholars conclude there are two strains, from two different authors (or groups of authors) in Genesis: the Elohist (E) and the Yahwist (Y or J). The first creation story is from E; the second—when the text mentions “the LORD,” which is the name YHVH (or Yahweh) in the Hebrew text—from Y. I’m not sure how these strains are conflated throughout Genesis, but YHVH does not appear in the 1st chapter.

In the E version, it just says that God created them “male and female,” without reference to how many. In the Y version, it is Adam and Eve. Eve bore Cain and Abel; then, when Adam was 130 years old, came Seth and then other sons and daughters. So I think the point of brustar’s original post is basically: where did Cain’s wife (or anybody else to that point, such as the people he feared might kill him) come from?

Now, if you take the story as allegory—with or without the E & Y distinction—it really doesn’t matter. God could just as well have created other “original” humans, of course—although this might create some problems with regard to the Garden of Eden, eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, and the passing on of “original sin” to all humanity; after all, that story only pertains to Adam and Eve. You can probably get around all that, if you’re willing to work hard enough outside the text.

Or, the stories just got mixed up when conflated, and nobody worried about it because the Adam and Eve story was mainly a morality tale. If you’re looking for the allegorical messages of the stories—God as creator, the changing relationships between God and humanity, etc.—then it’s no big deal. These are very short stories, after all, and, as such, are short on details that the authors didn’t think were relevant to the points they wanted to make; and the origins of Cain’s wife or other “clans” just wasn’t one of them.

If the Adam and Eve story is taken as the actual, historical creation of the only two first human beings, then—again—where did Cain’s wife come from? If all humankind is descended from Adam and Eve, then Darv is right—the sons of Adam and Eve must have married the daughters of Adam and Eve.

S

Joined
07 Feb 03
Moves
1058
Clock
16 Jul 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

The bible is not true and is utilised as form of social control used by the economic elite who detract biblical utterances such as the meek shall inherit the earth, and then turn them into hegemonic tools of suppression.

f
Bruno's Ghost

In a hot place

Joined
11 Sep 04
Moves
7707
Clock
16 Jul 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by Serendipity
The bible is not true and is utilised as form of social control used by the economic elite who detract biblical utterances such as the meek shall inherit the earth, and then turn them into hegemonic tools of suppression.
Do you know that many very religious people have come very close to the same conclusions as you have. In fact , Christ Himself wasn't exactly thrilled about the "economic elite" or any elites for that matter.

H
I stink, ergo I am

On the rebound

Joined
14 Jul 05
Moves
4464
Clock
16 Jul 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by Serendipity
The bible is not true and is utilised as form of social control used by the economic elite who detract biblical utterances such as the meek shall inherit the earth, and then turn them into hegemonic tools of suppression.
Economically ellite?!

Do I detect a hint of Marxism here?

H
I stink, ergo I am

On the rebound

Joined
14 Jul 05
Moves
4464
Clock
16 Jul 05
1 edit
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by vistesd
From Genesis 1:

[b]27 So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; ...[text shortened]... dam and Eve must have married the daughters of Adam and Eve.

Vistesd missed an important point in his comprehensive expanation:
Gen 5:4 "And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years and he begat sons and daughters.

Cain married his sister. He feared that his siblings would kill him.

W
Angler

River City

Joined
08 Dec 04
Moves
16907
Clock
16 Jul 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by Serendipity
The bible is not true and is utilised as form of social control used by the economic elite who detract biblical utterances such as the meek shall inherit the earth, and then turn them into hegemonic tools of suppression.
This statement is simplistic crap.

Even Vine Deloria, Jr., who often seems generally hostile to modern manifestations of Western Christianity, insists that the Bible should be considered a true account of a people's search for the supernatural, and for spiritual meaning. The problem with revelations in the Judeo-Christian tradition is not whether they communicate a true account of human experiences, but whether that truth has any validity outside the spatial context of its origin. The Bible is a true account of spiritual experiences in the Middle East, but should not be asserted as true for all times, places, and peoples. (See God is Red, esp. chapter 4.)

c

Joined
01 Sep 04
Moves
29935
Clock
16 Jul 05
1 edit
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by darvlay
i.e. Incest



incest?

In a word; yes, it was incest! Cain married one of his many sisters. But incest, sex, and even marriage between siblings, was not wrong, bad, or even outlawed until God gave the law to Moses a few thousand years after the creation.

Governments today don't allow marriage between siblings because of the high probability of deformed children resulting. This likelihood has been increasing as the number of defective genes in the gene pool has increased over the past several thousand years. Our first parents had zero defects, so there was zero chance of any harm in siblings marrying. Even the 'eeeeeuw' factor that makes us all shudder at the thought would not have been part of the original culture.

Check out this article for a more thorough explanation.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/tools/cains_wife.asp

f
Bruno's Ghost

In a hot place

Joined
11 Sep 04
Moves
7707
Clock
16 Jul 05
1 edit
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by Halitose
Vistesd missed an important point in his comprehensive expanation:
Gen 5:4 "And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years and he begat sons and daughters.

Cain married his sister. He feared that his siblings would kill him.
or , maybe Christianity.

oops wrong post lol

was intended for your post
"Economically ellite?!
Do I detect a hint of Marxism here?"

sorry sis

Cookies help us deliver our Services. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn More.