20 Jan 17
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Originally posted by karoly aczelFor some, no amount of explanation is enough. And for others, any amount of explanation is too much.
And there you have it Suzi Q. The "Christians" have spoken.
I however admire your attempt at practicality
They are like our new president. Secular, and defending those who agree with their cookie-cutter ideas, while attacking anyone who disagrees.
21 Jan 17
Originally posted by SuzianneTry explaining why you've meshed your faith with your politics. What does Christianity have to do with political agendas? I don't get that.
For some, no amount of explanation is enough. And for others, any amount of explanation is too much.
They are like our new president. Secular, and defending those who agree with their cookie-cutter ideas, while attacking anyone who disagrees.
Especially with liberal ideologies. How do you balance legalized murder of babies with Biblical Christian values for example? Or the corruption of the God ordained institution of marriage between one man and one woman?
21 Jan 17
Originally posted by josephwDo you support politicians who want to overturn Roe v Wade and who oppose same sex marriages?
How do you balance legalized murder of babies with Biblical Christian values for example? Or the corruption of the God ordained institution of marriage between one man and one woman?
21 Jan 17
Originally posted by josephwPolitics does not of necessity require the acquisition of power by an actor. Suppose I wanted an outcome, rather than acquire power for myself to attempt to bring it about a viable strategy is to hint to a powerful individual something they could do with the aim of bringing about the outcome I desire.
The acquisition of power.
21 Jan 17
Originally posted by josephw"Try explaining why you've meshed your faith with your politics. What does Christianity have to do with political agendas? I don't get that."
Try explaining why you've meshed your faith with your politics. What does Christianity have to do with political agendas? I don't get that.
Especially with liberal ideologies. How do you balance legalized murder of babies with Biblical Christian values for example? Or the corruption of the God ordained institution of marriage between one man and one woman?
Politics is human. Religion is human. We all have some aspect of these things, whether we claim it or not. Christianity informs every aspect of my life. Yes, including my politics. If you were to say that you don't have a political agenda, I'd say you were lying. Your other questions show that you DO have a political agenda, and yes, it is tied in with your religion. You could perhaps read my post again for the answer to this. I explained why I wrote this post. People like you (who cannot abide the very idea of a Liberal Christian) have asked me time and again, Why are you a Liberal? I thought you were a Christian. I have laid out why I am both. You can disagree all you want, but don't tell me that I have no business "meshing" these two together. I've explained why my Liberalism and my Christianity live together quite harmoniously within me.
"Especially with liberal ideologies. How do you balance legalized murder of babies with Biblical Christian values for example? Or the corruption of the God ordained institution of marriage between one man and one woman?"
Your "Conservative ideology" is showing. You concentrate your ire at me "daring" to "disagree with God" or some such. So you focus on the two most "hotbutton" issues in religion. Yet, you only see one side of these issues. Firstly, I do not see abortion as "legalized murder". Women have miscarriages at almost every stage of pregnancy. Are all these women "murderers"? It's just not realistic to insist that every pregnancy come to full term. It's not realistic to assume that you are the sole arbiter for these deeply personal women's issues. No woman dismisses the decision to have an abortion as "convenient", or "irresponsible", or "expedient", or even "evil". No, men create these labels to punish the women who have made this heart-rending decision. And men criticize and harangue women for making these decisions. And men presume to judge women. This is perhaps the last judgement of another human being that is still justified by the church even though we are told not to judge our neighbors. Women are human beings, just like men, yet men still act like women belong to them to treat as "breeding slaves". Sorry, but women have free will, too, to make their own decisions, given all the information available to them, just like men. This is a basic human right, and yet men presume to strip it from women. And, speaking of rights, another basic human right is the right to marry the person you love. Who are you to claim that you know who someone should marry? Again, this is not a decision entered into lightly. From the dawn of time, God made humans both heterosexual and homosexual. Even if, as you claim, homosexuals are defying God, who are you to pass judgement on them? Are they not human, same as you? You have zero right to strip another human, regardless of their preferences, of their basic human rights.
We ARE told to love our neighbor AT LEAST as much as we love ourselves. To strip other humans of rights, which they are fully entitled to merely because they are human, is not showing love for them. It is treating them as less than human. And whether you, or I, or anybody, likes it or not, yes, we ARE our brother's keeper. It is our duty as Christians.
21 Jan 17
Originally posted by josephwSo taking money from the poor and middle class and giving it to the rich is a "Biblical value"? Greed is now a "Biblical value"? Treating people as less than human is a "Biblical value"?
Conservatism is rooted in Biblical values that are lost on both political parties.
22 Jan 17
Originally posted by SuzianneI guess I have no choice. Since you've taken the time to enumerate all your grievances at once I'll have to reply to each one individually.
[b]"Try explaining why you've meshed your faith with your politics. What does Christianity have to do with political agendas? I don't get that."
Politics is human. Religion is human. We all have some aspect of these things, whether we claim it or not. Christianity informs every aspect of my life. Yes, including my politics. If you were to say th ...[text shortened]... I, or anybody, likes it or not, yes, we ARE our brother's keeper. It is our duty as Christians.[/b]
"Politics is human."
So it is.
"Religion is human."
So it is, but I don't have "religion". Some think Christianity is a religion, but I disagree. Christianity is a faith walk, not by sight, but by God's spirit. Not by coercion of rites and rituals, but motivated by love.
"We all have some aspect of these things, whether we claim it or not."
Well, we live here after all, and while we do we must strive to get it right. Why be fettered by extraneous "things" of the earth when we can be free in the spirit of God's grace and love, being led unto all righteousness? Why be encumbered by the pursuit of "things" that will surely pass away? It is by God's power, not ours, that we are made righteous.
"Christianity informs every aspect of my life."
Not everything that calls itself "Christian" is actually patterned after God's Truth. I think that's quite obvious, even in my own life. No one has attained perfection. It's a lifelong pursuit.
"Yes, including my politics."
Nothing wrong with that necessarily, unless your faith is misinformed.
"If you were to say that you don't have a political agenda, I'd say you were lying."
I don't lie. I'm certainly not as heavily invested in politics as you appear to be. Just like you my faith "informs" me and I act accordingly.
"Your other questions show that you DO have a political agenda, and yes, it is tied in with your religion."
I think it would be better stated that I have a "political" opinion. I'm an American citizen with full voting rights. Politicians have "agendas". I have the Truth. I think there's a big difference. You may not see "things" the same as I, but you have every right to your own opinions.
"You could perhaps read my post again for the answer to this. I explained why I wrote this post."
I think I adequately demonstrated that I did.
"People like you (who cannot abide the very idea of a Liberal Christian) have asked me time and again, Why are you a Liberal? I thought you were a Christian."
"People like me"? I think you're being just a bit duplicitous with that one. You make disparaging remarks about "conservative" Christians quite frequently, and I never ask you that question, at least not directly, and I never inferred that "people like you"(liberals)are any less Christian than any one else whether they be democrats, republicans, socialists, communists or anything else.
"I have laid out why I am both. You can disagree all you want, but don't tell me that I have no business "meshing" these two together. I've explained why my Liberalism and my Christianity live together quite harmoniously within me."
I never said you "have no business" meshing your "religion" with your politics. I simply asked you "how" you do it.
Obviously we don't agree. Like you I am "informed" by my faith, and my political opinions are shaped by it. The reason I asked how, but I guess I said "why", you "meshed your faith with your politics" is because we have a different take on some Biblical perspectives and interpretations.
Therein lies the real meat of the matter. I'll reply to the rest of your post as time permits. Understand this though, I have no "ire" towards you personally.