Why waste the time?

Originally posted by telerion
...Since we were talking about unbelievable things, how unbelievable is it that both the Chinese and the Egyptians were able to tread water for a year?

I think they used inflatable water-wings.

There were no Egyptians or Chinese that far back. You way-off on your dates.

Originally posted by Coletti
Is that so? Are you a Unitarian?

Don't be silly, Col.

The point is that "Goddunnit" is always a valid religious excuse.

Basically, I think you have some serious cognitive dissonance going on.
Sort of the kind described here:
http://www.learningandteaching.info/learning/dissonance.htm

The only reason you can continue to believe that a worldwide flood occurred 4000 years ago is either because you've never given honest consideration to myriad of problems with the hypothesis or because you place incredibly stict filters on the evidence you take in.

Originally posted by Coletti
I saw one calculation based on the Bible which places the flood at 2300 BC.

I don't think I would call it a "dearth" of evidence. But I'm not trying to prove the flood scientifically. I'm more interested in showing that the Bible is not the only evidence of the flood. There is enough scientific evidence so the we can not rule out the flood. And there is no theological reason to doubt the flood occurred.

There was no worldwide flood. the bibilical version of the "flood" came from the Akkadian version,, which had been taken form the Sumerian story.

There really isn't any doubt as to where the bible got the story from, not among archeologists.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I would give a possible third explanation for the fact that the flood story is in cultures throughout the globe (not all, but it is quite dispersed). I would postulate that the basic Flood story is a very ancient "proto-myth" with its origins back to the time when Homo Sapiens were a small population in Africa and the Middle East. As Man migr ...[text shortened]... ompilation of flood myths throughout the world. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html

this is where the biblical version came from ,, along with other parts of Genesis:

http://www.earth-history.com/Sumer/Kramer/kramer-titile.htm

Originally posted by Coletti
Petrified trees, how they are oriented, the way they penetrate through layers of soil - details were predicted to be cause by a cataclysmic flood event. The predictions were confirmed by the Mt St. Helen's eruption.

Do you have a link to an article with more detail?

Originally posted by Coletti
I'm not misrepresenting your views - I'm am telling you that your interpretation of the data is different from mine. (Mines better 🙂 ) If the flood did occur, you'd expect that other cultures would be aware of it. And guess what! There were. There are many cultures besides the Jews who speak of a worldwide flood. This is evidence for the flood.

If the flood did occur, you'd expect that other cultures would have all been killed and everyone would be Jewish descendents of Noah.

Originally posted by frogstomp
this is where the biblical version came from ,, along with other parts of Genesis:

http://www.earth-history.com/Sumer/Kramer/kramer-titile.htm

We've been over this many times; your assertion does not explain why there are flood myths very similiar to the Middle Eastern ones in the Americas, Australia, Polynesia, etc. You're wasting your time with this assertion; it's essentially unprovable. The "proto-myth" theory of the Flood story explains how the story came to be found in cultures widely seperated by geography; your's simply doesn't.

Originally posted by Coletti
I think they used inflatable water-wings.

There were no Egyptians or Chinese that far back. You way-off on your dates.

According to this website, there were Egyptians in 5000 B.C:

http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/egctimee.html

Originally posted by Coletti
I think they used inflatable water-wings.

There were no Egyptians or Chinese that far back. You way-off on your dates.

Egyptian timelines (who knew that they built the pyramids while under 29,000 ft of water!):

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/egypt/history/timeline.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/egyptians/timeline.shtml

http://www.ancient-egypt.org/history/

Looks like you might have been right about the Chinese though(earliest civilization I've found is the Shang 2000 BCE). My bad.

Of course, that still leaves the Sumerians and the Indians (not the American ones). These are just the great civilizations. That by no means implies that these were the only people living through the period.

Still let's stick to the Egyptians for now. You haven't sacrificed your reason enough to really believe that they had floaties. The pre-Flood Egyptians must have drowned. If Noah, his sons, and their families were the only survivors. How did they make their way from the ark's landing place all the way back to Egypt, recover the blueprints for the Pyramids and texts on Egyptian religious history buried beneath hundreds of feet of mud, learn the language, deconvert from Yahwehism, and mass populate all within a few years?

Remember that probably only one couple could have gone to Egypt. The others had to high tail it to Australia, Mexico, India and China to prepare civilizations there too.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Do you have a link to an article with more detail?

Here's a few:

http://www.grisda.org/origins/10009.htm


http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v21/i2/yellowstone.asp

http://www.nwcreation.net/wiki/index.php?title=Yellowstone_National_Park

Originally posted by telerion
Egyptian timelines (who knew that they built the pyramids while under 29,000 ft of water!):

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/egypt/history/timeline.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/egyptians/timeline.shtml

http://www.ancient-egypt.org/history/

Looks like you might have been right about the Chinese though(earliest civilization I'v ...[text shortened]... o high tail it to Australia, Mexico, India and China to prepare civilizations there too.

maybe it was easier to float the giant rocks into place 🙂

Originally posted by telerion
Egyptian timelines (who knew that they built the pyramids while under 29,000 ft of water!):

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/egypt/history/timeline.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/egyptians/timeline.shtml

http://www.ancient-egypt.org/history/

Looks like you might have been right about the Chinese though(earliest civilization I'v ...[text shortened]... o high tail it to Australia, Mexico, India and China to prepare civilizations there too.

I found a few time-lines going back 5000 BC. But I they didn't give supporting documentation. And I some would have come before the flood. Some of the earliest specimens of writing were on stone and clay tablets, which would have survived the flood. So might the earliest pyramids.

There does seem to be a lot of information pointing to the Mesopotamia region as the original place of civilization. And there was a great deal of civilization before the flood - and I'd assume they were using a written language.

Originally posted by frogstomp
maybe it was easier to float the giant rocks into place 🙂

They may have been poured in place (i.e. they were concrete, not cut stone). At least that's one theory of how they were built.

Originally posted by Coletti
I found a few time-lines going back 5000 BC. But I they didn't give supporting documentation. And I some would have come before the flood. Some of the earliest specimens of writing were on stone and clay tablets, which would have surviv ...[text shortened]... re the flood - and I'd assume they were using a written language.

They don't even have to go back to 5,000 BCE. Every place I looked had an Egyptian civilization that was at least 600 years old by 2500 BCE.

No way would clay tablets survive a flood which answersingenesis.org describes as continent-moving and mountain-forming. Even if they could survive, like I said before, they would have been buried beneath hundreds of feet of mud. Same goes for pyramids. One also has to wonder how the "new Egyptians" managed to build pyramids on a giant mud flat. Of course, building pyramids would have been the least of their worries.

I agree that Mesopotamia was the "cradle of civilization" according to current archaeology and a definition of civilization that requires writing.
If we the beginning of agriculture (which brought larger populations of humans together) as the beginning of civilization, then we have to turn the clock back to almost 10,000 BCE.

My questions still stand. Can you offer a reasonable explaination of even the few issues I brought up in the previous post?

Originally posted by no1marauder
We've been over this many times; your assertion does not explain why there are flood myths very similiar to the Middle Eastern ones in the Americas, Australia, Polynesia, etc. You're wasting your time with this assertion; it ...[text shortened]... cultures widely seperated by geography; your's simply doesn't.

It doesn't have to ... all it has to do is explain how the story got into the bible. I don't care if there are other similar stories. the writers of Genesis "borrowed" the flood and other stories from Sumerian mythology and legends.