Why Y?

Originally posted by jaywill
So if you don't want to stick your neck out and be specific on whch favored handy dandy "Jesus the copy-cat" myth you want to use, I'll just let it slide.

I said nothing about a "Jesus the copy-cat myth". These are your words not mine. What I said was that miraculous births are a common element in historical literature and religious texts and that stories of miracle births often include miraculous conceptions and features such as intervention by a deity, supernatural elements, astronomical signs, hardship or in the case of some mythologies complex plots related to creation. Nothing about a a "Jesus the copy-cat myth", just that "miraculous births" are commonplace in religious scripture.

Originally posted by FMF
I said nothing about a "Jesus the copy-cat myth". These are your words not mine. What I said was that miraculous births are a common element in historical literature and religious texts and that stories of miracle births often include miraculous conceptions and features such as intervention by a deity, supernatural elements, astronomical signs, hardship or in th ...[text shortened]... the copy-cat myth", just that "miraculous births" are commonplace in religious scripture.

We Christians do not care about myths from historical literature and religious texts. We are only interested in the way, the truth, and the life. 😏
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord!

Originally posted by FMF
I said nothing about a "Jesus the copy-cat myth". These are your words not mine. What I said was that miraculous births are a common element in historical literature and religious texts and that stories of miracle births often include miraculous conceptions and features such as intervention by a deity, supernatural elements, astronomical signs, hardship or in th the copy-cat myth", just that "miraculous births" are commonplace in religious scripture.

I said nothing about a "Jesus the copy-cat myth".

My words and not yours.

These are your words not mine.

What I said was that miraculous births are a common element in historical literature and religious texts and that stories of miracle births often include miraculous conceptions and features such as intervention by a deity, supernatural elements, astronomical signs, hardship or in the case of some mythologies complex plots related to creation. Nothing about a a "Jesus the copy-cat myth", just that "miraculous births" are commonplace in religious scripture.

I think you are moving into generalities. We were talking about virgin births, I thought, per se. Now the field seems to be "miracle births."

Left vague and general this way, it is hard to answer. I mean which part of one of many stories I think has some plausible basis in history and which is fanciful is hard to speak of.

If you want to leave it vague and general, suffice it to say, I believe the Son of God was incarnated and born of a virgin woman once in history. I don't think a real important person elsewhere was born of a virgin.

There are a lot of mythologies before and after the writing of the Gospel which have elements that kind of remind people of something written in the Gospels.

Catholicism actually assimilated some of this mythology to make the Christian faith palatable and attractive to the pagan masses.

Originally posted by jaywill
I think you are moving into generalities. We were talking about virgin births, I thought, per se. Now the field seems to be "miracle births."

No I am not "moving" into anything. I have been talking about "miraculous births" with every single post of mine. Totally pertinent.

Originally posted by jaywill
Left vague and general this way, it is hard to answer. I mean which part of one of many stories I think has some plausible basis in history and which is fanciful is hard to speak of.

If there are any "miraculous births" from other religions that you believe in or find plausible, feel free to mention them. But you don't have to. I don't believe any of them.

Originally posted by FMF
No I am not "moving" into anything. I have been talking about "miraculous births" with every single post of mine. Totally pertinent.

Which specific belief would you like me to let you know I do or do not believe, as I believe the virgin birth of Jesus ?

Maybe you'll submit something I don't know about.
Maybe you'll submit one I have heard about.

Want to name a name ?

Originally posted by jaywill
If you want to leave it vague and general, suffice it to say, I believe the Son of God was incarnated and born of a virgin woman once in history. I don't think a real important person elsewhere was born of a virgin.

OK, so you've ruled out "a real important person". Do you then think that an unimportant person elsewhere may have been born miraculously?

Originally posted by FMF
OK, so you've ruled out "a real important person". Do you then think that an [b]unimportant person elsewhere may have been born miraculously?[/b]

OK, so you've ruled out "a real important person". Do you then think that an unimportant person elsewhere may have been born miraculously?

Either important or unimportant, no one has come into the world as Jesus Christ.

If you disagree that someone ELSE should be seriously considered, name a name.

Originally posted by jaywill
Maybe you'll submit something I don't know about.
Maybe you'll submit one I have heard about.

Want to name a name ?

Well you've already answered my question. If there were other "miraculous births" you believed in you'd say. As for me, I am being unequivocal: I don't believe any such stories. It is you who is being vague, not me. Do you believe just one "miraculous birth" story, or more than one? I believe in none of them. You?

Originally posted by jaywill
Either important or unimportant, no one has come into the world as Jesus Christ.

No one is suggesting that someone has come into the world as Jesus Christ in a religion other than yours.

What's with all these straw men?

Originally posted by FMF
If there are any "miraculous births" from other religions that you believe in or find plausible, feel free to mention them. But you don't have to. I don't believe any of them.

A virgin birth is not necessarily a miraculous birth. The birth of Jesus is the only miraculous birth. The other births that seem miraculous to you are only myths or possibly unusual births. 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
A virgin birth is not necessarily a miraculous birth. The birth of Jesus is the only miraculous birth. The other births that seem miraculous to you are only myths or possibly unusual births. 😏

You know, when you are as profoundly brainwashed into your religion as you are, why don't you just make a list of your pithy sayings, which you use over and over again anyway, and just go, as an answer to some post, #2. #6, #2, #8, etc, #1 being "Glory Halleluya!", etc. It will save you a lot of typing.

#2: "Evolution is a fairy tale for grownups"

And so forth.

Originally posted by RJHinds
A virgin birth is not necessarily a miraculous birth. The birth of Jesus is the only miraculous birth. The other births that seem miraculous to you are only myths or possibly unusual births. 😏

I presume that jaywill believes the same as you but is for some reason not willing to be unequivocal. Whether you reckon the other "miraculous births" in other religions are only myths does not alter the fact that "miraculous births" are commonplace across several religions, including Christianity.

Originally posted by FMF
I said nothing about a "Jesus the copy-cat myth". These are your words not mine. What I said was that miraculous births are a common element in historical literature and religious texts and that stories of miracle births often include miraculous conceptions and features such as intervention by a deity, supernatural elements, astronomical signs, hardship or in th ...[text shortened]... the copy-cat myth", just that "miraculous births" are commonplace in religious scripture.

It seems our resident lying, deceitful Christian has either never heard of Justin Martyr or Fermicus or he is intentionally "forgetting" about them.

From Dan Barker (ex fundamentalist)

Early Christians agreed that Christianity offered "nothing different" from paganism. Arguing with pagans around 150 C.E., Justin Martyr said: "When we say that the Word [Jesus], who is the first born of God, was produced without sexual union, and that he, Jesus Christ, our teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven; we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter (Zeus)." Fourth-century Christian scholar Fermicus, in attempting to establish the uniqueness of Christianity, met at every turn by pagan precedents to the story of Jesus, in exasperation concluded: "The Devil has his Christs!"

Originally posted by FMF
Well you've already answered my question. If there were other "miraculous births" you believed in you'd say. As for me, I am being unequivocal: I don't believe any such stories. It is you who is being vague, not me. Do you believe just one "miraculous birth" story, or more than one? I believe in none of them. You?

Do you believe just one "miraculous birth" story, or more than one? I believe in none of them. You?

Isaac's birth from Sarah was unusual.

Hannah's birth of Samson was an unusual answer to a specific prayer.

I believe in the virgin birth of Jesus as a miraculous act of God.

The maraculous birth of life in a pool of primordial soup out of non-life, I think is kind of mythological.

I don't want to review the specifics of Horus, Osiris, Krishna, etc. unless you get specific. You see, I don't tend to remember the details of these stories. They do not stick with me. I read them when I have to do some study. But I always have to go back and refresh myself.

If I recall these are some notable mythological names associated either with unusual births or unusual deaths and alledged comings back from death.

Even if we put aside what either of us believe, I am not sure you have specifics which parallels even in story form, the virgin birth of Jesus.